rover v8 cheapest route to na power

rover v8 cheapest route to na power

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wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
I've recently bought a tvr wedge.

These come fitted with a bog standard 3.5 rover sd1 lump, which is in questionable condition in my car.

I don't want to change away from a rv8 as I want to keep the original gearbox and engine mounts etc. Nor do I want to turbo or supercharge it.

As I see it I have the choice of tuning the 3.5 or upgrading to a 3.9 or 4.6 either of which I can pick up cheaply. Fuel will likely be either by megasquirt or Weber 500, what are peoples thoughts on the 2 engines? I lean towards the 4.6 for the extra capacity but feel I may need to spend more on it to get right as I think there is an liner issue on these engines and they apparently tend to be a bit lazy.

honestjohntoo

576 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
These come fitted with a bog standard 3.5 rover sd1 lump, which is in questionable condition in my car.
Does it also have the standard RV8 Flapper injection for the 350i?

If so, and because it is questionable, may I suggest using my 15 point health check.

RV8 Injection - 15 point health check (short form)

1 Clean all ignition components externally and internally, spray with moisture inhibitor such as WD40 and wipe dry. Ensure the distributor vacuum and mechanical advance mechanisms are lightly lubricated, working correctly and the springs/bob weights are free of any corrosion.

2 Check security and eliminate any corrosion on all ignition Low Tension connections right back to the ignition switch and beyond that to the battery in good order, including all local earth connections.

3 Clean and re-gap the spark plugs - replace if necessary.

4 Check for damaged or out of specification (measured suppression resistance) High Tension leads, Pay particular attention to the rubber boots. Clean and replace if necessary.

5 Set ignition timing to just eliminate pinking with normally available fuel. (Check workshop manual for recommended component and timing specifications.)

6 Ensure the plenum idle air gallery is clear and not contaminated with goo.

7 Thoroughly clean the plenum breather gallery, flame trap and LH rocker cover breather hole and filter

8 Ensure the throttle disc(s) is correctly seated at idle (or set to the recommended disc to tunnel gap where specified) to prevent "idle speed hang-up" and throttle system is free of unwanted friction from accelerator pedal to throttle pot.

9 Set the AFM CO content to the recommended range erring just on the weak side of the mid-point. If a CO meter is not immediately available set the adjuster screw to 2.5 turns out, from fully home.

10 Set the Throttle Position Sensor residual voltage to 325mv (some spec's call for 350mv). Ensure the sensor is not electrically noisy, causing random overfuelling.

11 Verify the fuel pressure operates in the range 26 to 36 psi. not more, not less.

12 Test the integrity of the plenum and all its air/vacuum hoses for rogue air-leaks, be sure there are no inlet manifold and rocker cover gasket air leaks.

13 Check all Efi loom wiring/connections for faults/corrosion including the Efi engine earth AND the engine earth strap.

14 Check and replace air and fuel filters if necessary. Ensure fuel tank is not generating crud.

15 Because the Plenum must be removed for proper cleaning and adjustment, lift and service the injectors, replacing filter baskets, pintle caps, fuel pipes and injector to manifold seals.

None of the above can yield anything over and above the system performance that existed when it was new but, be amazed at the horses the above program will release from a tired and maladjusted Rover SD1 Efi V8 system.

The beauty of it is, apart from time, most of these actions are low cost, or cost free.

To improve performance beyond its original specification there are three more suggestions.

A. Have the ECU re-mapped for one's specific needs, or fit something from the aftermarket.

B. Fit a rising rate fuel pressure regulator designed to generate more "Oomph" under acceleration and high throttle positions. Expect fuel consumption to deteriorate.

C. Fit a sports exhaust system that effectively improves overall breathing and minimises exhaust losses, as opposed to simply adding power which, of course, it can't do.

Note: the above is a short form version taken from my web pages, here, which has action links to most suggestions.

Hope this helps?

wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
Hi yes it has indeed got that system, but its only worth keeping if I stay with the 3.5 in standard trim which I probably won't be doing, its going to be fairly restrictive otherwise and I have no real concerns junking it and tidying the loom (its a tvr so probably starting again with loom) and going over to either msquirt or carb, I normally favour fi over carbs but on this I am tempted with a big old carb.

honestjohntoo

576 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
As I see it I have the choice of tuning the 3.5 or upgrading to a 3.9 or 4.6 either of which I can pick up cheaply.
I guess I was simply offering a solution to the first part of the above, ie tuning -m but you now seem to be favouring upgrading from the getgo?

Should you stay with 3.5 and change to MS or Carbs, all the other stuff in the health plan has to be spot on to maximise the output, why not do it first?? Then you can formulate your long term goal at optimum cost.

Also there is the mechanical condition of the engine to consider. You already have suspicions, compression and/or leak-down tests will answer some of the concerns, but also, could the cam be bujjered too?

It's possible to assess the cam condition without any dismantling of the engine. Here is a purely diagnostic process to detect a badly worn cam lobe on a Rover SD1 Efi RV8 Engine.

http://www.vintagemodelairplane.com/pages/Snippety...


wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
I think we may be at cross purposes, when I say tuning I don't mean a tune up, I'm talking about extracting more power from the engine than it produced when it was new in good condition naturally I will see an improvement on the current engine by getting to run well but they aren't exactly lively when fresh so I'd like to tune it. This pretty much precludes using the flapper system as if I want to go beyond a mild cam and a bit of gas flowing on the heads it will become restrictive and will probably want more time and money spending on it than its worth anyway.

I'm expecting to do a full rebuild on any engine, my concern on the 4.6 is the liners, I understand its a big issue and if any build needs to factor in £1200 of top hat liners regardless of condition as a preventative measure I'd really want to know it was worth the extra money over the (I believe) more reliable smaller blocks.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
If you get a good 4.6, then fairly sure they are just generally better all round.

But yes there is probably less risk with the 3.9 as far as liners are concerned.

After that, you're talking basic stuff, maybe some light headwork, cam swap and tuning after that.

wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
Cheers Stevie

spitfire4v8

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
Pretty much nothing you do (within reason) normally aspirated will feel as good on the road as more CCs ..

honestjohntoo

576 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
when I say tuning I don't mean a tune up,
my fault - cross purposes! confused It's cuz I'z old!

wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Tuesday 24th June 2014
quotequote all
Don't suppose anyones got Des Hammills how to power tune rover v8 engines book have they?

Number 7

4,101 posts

261 months

Thursday 26th June 2014
quotequote all
wildoliver said:
Don't suppose anyones got Des Hammills how to power tune rover v8 engines book have they?
Yep - what do you want to know?

mighty kitten

431 posts

132 months

Thursday 26th June 2014
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Yes I've got a copy I don't use £10 ?

wildoliver

Original Poster:

8,766 posts

215 months

Thursday 26th June 2014
quotequote all
Oooh excellent, email me your PayPal address and I'll send you some pennies across. You legend!

mighty kitten

431 posts

132 months

Friday 27th June 2014
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How about all three £20 ?

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Friday 27th June 2014
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mighty kitten said:
....
How about all three £20 ?
You have PM

Steve

unstable load

28 posts

118 months

Sunday 29th June 2014
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mighty kitten said:
How about all three £20 ?
Do you have a few more copies??

blitzracing

6,387 posts

219 months

Monday 30th June 2014
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3.9, 14cux ECU and TVR chip and MC1 cam- Ive seen a very respectable 249 BHP with a home port job on the heads. Aftermarket ECUs are nice at a price, but there are plenty of 14CUX chip tunes around that will cost a lot less. Life gets difficult if you get an engine set up with the Lucas GEMs ECU on the later / larger serpentine engines- thats why TVR stuck to the 14CUX and dizzy.

Tony427

2,873 posts

232 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
mighty kitten said:

How about all three £20 ?
Very subtle, I like it.....

Cheers,

Tony

Fastdruid

8,623 posts

151 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all
Tony427 said:
mighty kitten said:

How about all three £20 ?
Very subtle, I like it.....
Me too! ~260hp before the turbo's are added, what's not to like! smile
Have you got a build thread or more details?

mighty kitten

431 posts

132 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
quotequote all

It's a 32 roadster body on a space frame . Build thread is on rods n sods .
Would have gone with rv8 but the Lexus motor was so cheap even factoring in the cost of the adapter to mate the r154 supra box it's still cheaper to make 400hp