spec my electric water pump please

spec my electric water pump please

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Discussion

spitfire4v8

Original Poster:

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
Hi all, we have a small issue with our race car .. in line 6 cylinder 3.6 engine making just shy of 400hp at 7800rpm
When the car is on track things are fine with the cooling, holds 85deg (thermostat temp) but if the driver comes into the pits the coolant boils straight away..

We'd like to add an electric pump in series with the mechanical pump .. but what flow rating do y'all think we will need to support 400hp on a hot day on track and not be a hindrance to the existing mechanical pump?

Removing the mechanical pump at this stage isn't an option, it's chain driven inside the front timing cover and the same chain also drives the oil pump.

this is the car on track, sadly doing a rare misbehaving session chucking its coolant out after being cooked in the pits earlier in the day.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYZNK7v4Odc

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
better radiator or cooling fan capacity not a better solution ?

If airflow on track keeps things cool...then it sounds like you just need airflow when not on track.

spitfire4v8

Original Poster:

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
We already run a large cooling fan , but could fit another one.
The way the temperature goes sky high on coming to a standstill can be partially reduced by keeping the engine revs high, but that only works for a short time .. what we've read into that is that the water pump flow at low rpm isn't sufficient, and keeping the revs higher aids flow and keeps things under control in the short term, but the very action of keeping the revs high introduces yet more heat which is then counter-productive.

Our thinking is that if we can keep the engine revs low in the pits, but still have high total coolant flow , then that would be the best scenario.

Plus extra fans and larger rads and more coolant adds weight and we're already a bit lardy compared to the fast boys in the series!!

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
We recently had a similar problem, I was dubious, but Evans coolant was the answer. May be worth a try.

spitfire4v8

Original Poster:

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
Evans coolant would probably sort it .. Im reluctant to use it because one guy in the race series already cooked his engine (partial seizure) the very next race after switching to it from water .. but i do agree it would likely sort this particular issue.
I am going to go with an electric pump anyway as it will help for next year when we go for 9000rpm .. I expect the std water pump may well cavitate at those revs. Thanks for the suggestion smile

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
Always view other peoples reasons for failure with extreme suspicion. wink

RC Developments

83 posts

123 months

Tuesday 22nd July 2014
quotequote all
I would go with the largest Craig Davies pump you can afford with space/power usage, they have worked wonders on every car I have used them on.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
RC Developments said:
I would go with the largest Craig Davies pump you can afford with space/power usage, they have worked wonders on every car I have used them on.
Cant comment on their latest...but many have a very different view of their older stuff.
I know I tried one some 15 years ago or more....I gave the pump away and swore I'd never use another.

Stewart Components make some good quality stuff, also seen them used on some of Prodrive Lemans engines

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=p...

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 23rd July 2014
quotequote all
I ran a graig davies on my race car in Malaysia, great kit but if I remember right they do not recomeend running with a mechanical pump, I removed the mec pump but if you need the pulley they recomend removing the rotors from the mechanical pump.

turbonutter

496 posts

207 months

Sunday 27th July 2014
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
RC Developments said:
I would go with the largest Craig Davies pump you can afford with space/power usage, they have worked wonders on every car I have used them on.
Cant comment on their latest...but many have a very different view of their older stuff.
I know I tried one some 15 years ago or more....I gave the pump away and swore I'd never use another.

Stewart Components make some good quality stuff, also seen them used on some of Prodrive Lemans engines

http://www.stewartcomponents.com/index.php?route=p...
Had various issues with the DC pumps myself - new they leak with 15psi pressure to name one. Have now fitted a stewart components pump - looks much better quality - havent run it yet so cant comment on performance

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 28th July 2014
quotequote all
I wouldn't use/trust a DC pump to fill my bath, let alone attempt to cool a ££££ race engine..........

spitfire4v8

Original Poster:

3,990 posts

180 months

Tuesday 29th July 2014
quotequote all
Returning to this thread rather embarassingly to say i've ordered a DC pump boxedin
Sadly though it hadn't turned up by the time the car was finished (11pm last night ..) and the car is now back with the customer who probably got home after midnight ..
The pump was ordered through demon tweeks so at least if it does leak I can send it back .. then if it leaks again I can get my money back and go for the Stewart pumps mentioned earlier which look better?
Anyway, the deed is done now for better or worse .. when the pump does arrive though I will have to fit it at the circuit before the fist race, not the best way to test a new item.

We certainly need something though .. ran the car up on the dyno for a couple of power runs late last night and the temperature was fine running on the dyno .. back at tickover though the temps soared quickly once again ..

Thanks for all suggestions .. will let you know in a few weeks how we got on.

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
If you cannot upgrade the existing pump then maybe the answer is to have an electric pump run parallel to the mechanical pump and have it always running.

Running in series will pose a restriction unless it is sized adequately for the application - probably around 320 L/min, and even then, when the engine stops the flow stops or becomes a trickle.

spitfire4v8

Original Poster:

3,990 posts

180 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
I can't (at the moment) see how we can run a pump in parallel .. the existing pump is chain driven inside the front timing cover, the outlet for that pump is therefore buried well and truly in the innards of the engine.

RC Developments

83 posts

123 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
I would not be worried about the DC pumps as I have said I have used 4/5 for numerous race cars and never had a problem. Demon Tweeks do not sell rubbish that gets returned.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
RC Developments said:
I would not be worried about the DC pumps as I have said I have used 4/5 for numerous race cars and never had a problem. Demon Tweeks do not sell rubbish that gets returned.
Demon Tweeks sell product. Some good, some bad.



anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
RC Developments said:
as I have said I have used 4/5 for numerous race cars and never had a problem.
You pretty much need to use 4 PER CAR to actually get any meaningful water flow rate.......

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Wednesday 30th July 2014
quotequote all
Years ago I had similar problems on a TR7 v8 turbo. The fix was a viscous fan mounted to the crank pulley.

Ive

211 posts

168 months

Friday 15th August 2014
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I run a DC EWP80 pump in series with the mechanical water pump for the very same reason. Works perfectly all controlled by their electronic water pump controller. ECU runs fan1, DC controller fan 2.
A few others fitted those now to their Rover K engined Lotus Elise with great succes.
My Elise runs a tuned Rover K supercharged with a Rotrex C30-94.
Track, road, traffic jam. Temps are way more stable. No temp raising from heat soak coming straight off the track.

For a big engine, consider a EWP115. Keep the mechanical pump. It pumps way more than the EWP at high rpms.
At low rpms and normal running temps, the EWP is still driven by the electronic pump controller. There is little to no flow resistance. Remember it is supposed to cool the entire engine by itself.

Marko

e8_pack

1,384 posts

180 months

Saturday 20th September 2014
quotequote all
I have an EWP 80 on my duratec.

It is driven by a consigned output from the Emerald ECU and driven by a table that can alter the pump output based on throttle % and RPM and coolant temperature.

The power to the pump is driven by a signal amplifier available from SBD. This is a much better solution that the CD controller which pulses water around the engine in 15 second bursts. This ia long time for an engine to be without any circulation even at low temperature.