Peugeot 206 1.6 Engine Issue = Judders when warm

[zakmuh]

Hello All,

Im new to this forum. I've got an issue with my newly bought 206 1.6 petrol Auto, 99k mileage. I has been recently fully serviced. So I thought I'd seek your DIY assistance on solving this problem.

When restarting the car, after driving for about 10 miles, the engines starts to judder- little power + lots of shaking. This only happens after doing 10 or above 10 miles. Short driving doesn't throw up this problem at all. When this problem starts, the engine light comes on and car uses alot of petrol and its difficult to drive. Intake/vacuum leaks? Checked, all okay. Fuel pump? Checked, its working fine.

Last night I started the engine and checked it by disconnecting MAP sensor plug, engine light didn't come on, moved on to MAF sensor and then the light came on with high rev. Plugged it back, rev went back to normal but the light is still on.


Could it be due to;
Clogged/faulty MAF sensor? Can anyone give the location in the engine room?
Clogged throttle body & intake system & fuel system?
Faulty Lambda sensor?

Why this happens only when the engine is warm?? From my understanding, a faulty Lambda sensor would make the engine judder in cold start and then run normal when it's warm. Dunno if I should check plugs/injectors by disconnecting one by one? My dashboard display unit isn't working, so can't read any error messages. I think the bulbs are blown.

I'm going to check the above all this weekend. So if anyone has any ideas/heads up for me that would be greatly appreciated. If theres another thread with same issues, please do give me the link.

Cheers

[PositronicRay]

The 1st stop for me would be to read the codes, you're garage will do it for a few ££££s

[Pumaracing]

Could be a huge range of things but a partially blocked fuel filter is one of them. How on earth do you know it uses lots of fuel just when the problem starts? That seems impossible.

[zakmuh]

Thanks PositronicRay and Pumaracing

With due respect, Im reluctant to take the car to the garage guy just to read the code to find out the problem at this stage. I've sorted all the engine issues with my previous cars(inlcuding BMW 7 sereis) by myself at home with the help of good people like you all in forums like this. I only take the it to the garage to clear the code after fixing it. I buy cars with problems and fixing them at home is my hobby. Ive got all the garage equipments, except the code reader. I like to do it old school way lolz!

Regarding burning lots of fuel....this model is very economical on petrol. Lets say I put £10 of petrol and drive to place A. Fuel meter would show only 1mm mark is used. On the way back home engine starts to judder and its very difficult to accelerate, parking on driveway and checking the fuel meter, less than half of the tank is gone! I can even drive 250 miles witout any issues with the first start of the day. But when I restart the car (when its hot), it judders

I think it's the MAF sensor acting up- ECU injecting more fuel to compensate the amount of air( miss reading from MAF seonsor)flowing into the intake manifold?

[Mr2Mike]

Sounds like one of the coils is breaking down as it warms up. Far from uncommon on this engine.

[zakmuh]

Mr2Mike said:

Sounds like one of the coils is breaking down as it warms up. Far from uncommon on this engine.

Do you reckon?

Im gonna take it for a spin this evening and when the juddering throws up, I'll check the ignition supply disconnecting one by one and keep you all posted.

Thanks Mike

[Mr2Mike]

If it's got the coil pack I'm thinking of there is one connector for all four coils, you have to replace the lot. Fortunately they are fairly inexpensive, at least for the aftermarkets ones.

Disconnecting one injector at a time would be a better way to isolate it to a cylinder.

[paintman]

I'd suggest finding an indy Peugeot specialist locally & seeing what their diagnostic throws up as opposed to a general garage.
The one local to me charges £35. Whilst I do most of the work on our cars for that money plus their experience it isn't worth me fooling around - even though we've had a whole string of Pugs & currently run 2 petrol 307s in the family.
Swapping parts at random MIGHT find a fault but it will more likely empty your wallet!
I'm 99% certain the 206 is a strip coil pack on top of the plugs, so no option of unplugging a lead at a time.

ETA. We did have issues with the 306s - 1.6 petrol engine - with the coolant temperature sender. This is the one that tells the ECU whether the engine is hot or cold & when they start to fail - which is often intermittent & may not show on a diagnostic - the ECU thinks the engine is actually cold when its hot & overfuels accordingly, to the extent that the car just cuts out at idle.

Edited by paintman on Wednesday 11th February 15:32

[zakmuh]

Thanks for above two comments.

A quick update.......last night after work I drove the car for about 12 miles, parked on the drive way, went for a cuppa, came back and started the car..it did judder. Then I disconnected the MAF sensor (please see attached pic below) then the engine revved up a lot (not too high). Then I connected the sensor back again but the rev remained the same. I then turned the engine off, started back again...it was normal; no juddering and no high rev.

So based on the above, can we say it's the MAF sensor the culprit??

And also, I called Peugeot dealer and asked for the price for MAF sensor. The guy couldn't find a MAF sensor so I had to tell him that its the gadget between the intake manifold and air hose (please see attached pic below). Am I right on that? He gave me price of £200 though. Europarts doesnt do this stuff, they say.

Edited by zakmuh on Thursday 12th February 16:21

Edited by zakmuh on Thursday 12th February 16:24

[Mr2Mike]

Europarts certainly do sell MAF sensors, but avoid the budget versions like the plague. I've seen far too many of these not work straight out of the box.

[paintman]

If that's what you've unplugged/replugged & think it solved the problem then change it. If you can't find it elsewhere then you'll have to get it from the dealer. Some items are dealer only - but I'd take the advice you've been given about avoiding cheapies.
There's a few pics here if its of any help: http://www.bavariandominator.co.uk/pages/peugeot_m...
I note that you are getting exactly the same advice on peugeotforum with regard to having a diagnostic done.

[drdino]

No MAF sensor on this engine, that's the throttle you are referring to. It does have a MAP sensor-no 5 in the schematic.

[zakmuh]

Appreciate that guys

This weekend Im gonna take the throttle unit out and give it a good clean and check if the problem still exists. If it does then yeah....I'm gonna take it to read the fault code and then take it from there. From what the dealer is saying, I have to buy the entire throttle body, not just the sensor. I think it's better to buy these kinda parts from the dealer for a peace of mind. Having said that, I used very cheap parts for my E38 7 Series from Europarts and they all were fine.

I did check the MAP sensor. Its clean and working fine. In my previous car BMW 320d I had to clean the complete air intake manifold by soaking it with oven cleaner for 3 days.

I'll keep you all updated. Cheers

Edited by zakmuh on Friday 13th February 09:00

[Sensibleboy]

Petrol 206's don't use a MAF sensor which is why the parts man couldn't find one. They use the MAP sensor and throttle position to determine engine load.

The picture highlights the throttle body. It appears to be a motorised variety pictured.

[zakmuh]

Yeah, youre right Sensibleboy, thanks

I managed to fix the dashboard display system; simply replaced blown bulbs. The messages I get when the engine judders are 'aunti pollution fault' and then, couple of mins later 'catalytic converter fault'. When I retart the engine, no more messages and engine is fine.

Any advice on this please?

[zakmuh]

Sardonicus said:

Injector failure is not uncommon on this engine and sometimes temperature dependent and if staying open or sticking can cause emission fault codes or random misfire codes just a warning, the last 2 I changed due to failure also had low resistance when tested the main culprit had the lower resistance

Thanks for making a valid comment Sardonicus.

Ive looked into order a multimeter to start checking with ignition coil to injectors. What are the required reading for coil and injector and is it in Ohms or kilo Ohms?

Cheers

[zakmuh]

Sardonicus said:

They are high impenedence inj's so your looking at around 13/15 OHMs one I condemned recenty was showing just 6.5 OHM's

Thanks.

I didn't actually get any time to look into this matter. I'll keep posted

[a351]

I had the rac out yesterday and he told me it was either the spark plugs or the ignition coil pack. Do you agree please help

[E-bmw]

You might want to give us a bit more info than that if you want a bit better guess.

You do know the post you have picked up on is 4 years old don't you?

[GreenV8S]

a351 said:

I had the rac out yesterday and he told me it was either the spark plugs or the ignition coil pack. Do you agree please help

Since he was there and has information about the problem and I wasn't and don't, I don't see any grounds to disagree with him.