Borg Warner 35 Automatic Gearbox removal - Help Needed!

[Oily Puddles]

I need to separate the engine and automatic gearbox from a 1965 Sunbeam Alpine sports car and I have little understanding of automatics and how they fit together (plus they scare me). I have done engine an gearbox jobs on a lot of manual Alpines but haven't worked on an automatic for a number of years (although I have done this job before). I want to leave the auto box in the car and leave the torque convertor and rest of gearbox as undisturbed as possible.

It must be old age but I just can't remember how the engine and gearbox actually separate and what happens as they come apart!

I have a vague memory or locking the ring gear and then reaching through the starter motor hole with a goosenecked spanner and undoing 4 bolts that join a steel plate that connects the crankshaft to the flywheel then moving the engine forward and separating the two units there. Is this correct? It seems an odd way of doing business and I can't believe that's is the official way of doing the job.
On a manual you can just swing the two units apart, the end of the gearbox shaft locates in the spigot bearing in the crankshaft and the gearbox shaft passes through the middle of the clutch. Can the engine and automatic box be swung apart like this and if they can what happens to the torque convertor, shaft, fluids etc?

I doubt if many people on here have worked on Automatic Sunbeam Alpines (they made less than 200) but any help or advice from anyone familiar with the Borg Warner 35 would be gratefully received. This automatic box was fitted to MGs, Triumphs, Rovers as well as numerous American cars so there are a lot around.

I am off to drink some alcohol and puzzle over this problem for a while and try to remember what I did before!

Oily

[imagineifyeswill]

You are quite right, you unbolt the torque convertor from the drive plate through a hole in the bellhousing and then split the engine and box leaving torque convertor on box. You can do it the conventional way but have a high possibility almost a certainty of damaging the torque convertor seals.

[Oily Puddles]

Thanks Imagineifyeswill

You would think that they would make it a little easier to do! It will take an extended gooseneck 9/16 ring spanner to get to the bolt head as no box spanner, socket or other spanner will fit. The bolt heads are only just visible through the starter motor hole!

Looks like I am going to be busy!

Oily

[one eyed mick]

Right, in years gone by I removed a few BW35 's never undid bolts on drive plat /torque converter, drain the fluid , remove prop and linkages /rev light and lock out wiring ,kick down cable, remove trans cross member undo bell hsg bolts and remove trans ,its realy a hoist /ramp job and a trans jack is well worth it ,the torque converter stays attached to the drive plate ,unless you want to take it off and the bolts are reach able with a long flat spanner. the box is heavy [2man lift ] refitting requires patience as there are splines to line up [ more fiddly than a clutch ]but it is doable HTH

[Steve_D]

The problem is not taking it apart it is putting it back together.
The nose of the TC is the drive for the oil pump so when you refit the TC/engine combo this must be aligned with the pump. If not it will break the pump. A Build Manual will give a dimension from bell housing face to TC face so that when you refit a TC to the 'box you know the drive has engaged.

Is there a tin plate cover at the bottom of the bell housing? that is the normal route in. You should not need special spanners.

Steve

[Oily Puddles]

I separated the engine and gearbox by undoing the four bolts that hold the steel plate to the flywheel (accessed once the bottom cover plate between the two units was removed). I used the starting handle to lock the engine (and the bolts are only very lightly torqued) so they came apart easily. This allowed the engine to swing forward and free leaving the gearbox, torque converter etc undisturbed. So far much easier than taking a manual apart as the engine does't have to move so far forward to separate as it is not coming off of a long shaft!

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and comments.

Oily

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[Steve_D]

I don't know what the aim of the exercise is but if the 'box is also to be removed then start by bolting a bit of wood or steel across the bell housing so you don't drop the TC out.
A TC crashing on the floor having taken the seals with it would be regarded as a 'bad day'.

Steve

[Oily Puddles]

Thanks Steve,

The aim is to keep the gearbox and TC as is and then return the engine back to position after it has been fixed. I take you point though and will secure the TC before any mishaps!

Oily

[Steve_D]

Whilst you have it in bits give the flex plate a good inspection as they have a tendency to crack. Normally around the crankshaft fixings.

Steve

[S0 What]

With SteveD on this, allways remove the TC from the flex plate and leave it in the box, done hundreds and allways do it this way, in fact most if not all factory manuals will tell you this is the correct way to do it.
Once the engine is out as said remove the bolts and washer plate and check round the FP bolt holes for cracking, ive repaired quite a few triumph flex plates over the years for some reason, fewer fords and even less BMW/Merc, no idea why ?

[Oily Puddles]

Taken Steve D's advice. Now I just need to get the engine fixed and back in again.

Oily