Jet A1 in A Diesel
Discussion
Hi All,
Apologies in advance if we have already covered this but, with emissions getting as tight as they are, could diesel engines produced say, 2010 onwards, accept Jet fuel? I know older engines can run on it if mixed with 1-2% oil by weight but wonder if a modern Merc/BMW/VW could run quite happily with the EU targets.
Feedback welcome
Kurt.
Apologies in advance if we have already covered this but, with emissions getting as tight as they are, could diesel engines produced say, 2010 onwards, accept Jet fuel? I know older engines can run on it if mixed with 1-2% oil by weight but wonder if a modern Merc/BMW/VW could run quite happily with the EU targets.
Feedback welcome
Kurt.
Ive never heard of anyone running a diesel on Jet fuel but the older ones probably would as its basically kerosene, wouldnt like to chance it in a modern engine. Many years ago had a friend who was in the RAF who ran an old Escort van on a mixture of petrol and jet fuel, said it was spluttery when cold fine when warmed up but when the engine blew up after a few months he said it literally melted the internals.
It will run on it. However you will be down on power slightly, if memory serves. But, the biggest issue is lubricity, it doesn't have the same lubrication properties as regular diesel.
The big players, Bosch, Denso and Delphi, will all tell you the pump and injectors will have a drastically shorter life running on it.
ETA: it is used in military applications a lot, but they are emissions exempt and have very low hours requirements.
The big players, Bosch, Denso and Delphi, will all tell you the pump and injectors will have a drastically shorter life running on it.
ETA: it is used in military applications a lot, but they are emissions exempt and have very low hours requirements.
The diesel engine will run on Jet A1, but it will probably get trashed quite quickly. Jet A1 isn't produced to the same standards of quality control as road diesel. Thielert make aviation piston engines that run Jet A1 - the one I know best is based on the 1.7 and later 2.0 diesel unit from the Mercedes A class with extensive modifications to cope with the lower quality fuel.
I don't know if tanks run on it, but we supply a small number of engines that go into wheel loaders, backhoes, etc that get used in a military environment, they are very low hours, as in, if the engine is designed for 10k hours in a normal environment on regular diesel, in a military application it will do ~1000 hours, and not all of that will be on jet 1A or JP8.
Hi I ran my merc v220cdi for years on it, CDI engine every other tank full I used to put a 2ltr of Turbine oil in with the Jet A. I used to tow with it too, used to smell like jet A burning when cold and never missed a beat, still have it must have done 20k with it, had to put derv in it when travelling. I think the old rotary pump would not like the no lubricity aspect, but then they don't like low sulpher either!!
This is where we need some hacked off chemistry teacher, you know, similar to Breaking Bad man who can make the definitve magic potion we need to add to the Jet A1.
Environmentalists should also join the crusade as the emissions from Jet A1 look very low, evidenced by local chappie who put his mobile poisonous gas cloud van through his MOT on it to pass the emissions test with flying colours.........
Environmentalists should also join the crusade as the emissions from Jet A1 look very low, evidenced by local chappie who put his mobile poisonous gas cloud van through his MOT on it to pass the emissions test with flying colours.........
I knew a helicopter engineer who partly ran his car on the stuff. Possibly a Honda, but this was 10-15 years ago so I wouldn't swear to it. Every day he had to do water/contaminant tests on a couple of machines and in due course had to "dispose" of it, which he might have done in a responsible and eco-friendly manner. I hate the smell of diesel, but love that of a jet engine exhaust! He never seemed to experience any problems.
I am a helicopter Engineer and we had an old Ford tractor for towing the machines in and out the hangar that was run on JetA1 for over 20 years. It was a bit slow starting when it was cold, but it always started. One of our pilots had an old Hilux that he ran on JetA1 for around 300 000km and I ran my Merc 240D on it for 9 months before selling it.
I wouldn't use it on a modern common rail engine because JetA1 has lower lubricity than Diesel and it could harm the close tolerance parts used these days.
As for JetA being refined to lower spec than Diesel, I don't agree with that. Some turboshafts are certified to run on Diesel, but the inspection intervals are reduced to stop filters clogging. Diesel is filthy by comparison the Jet fuel.
I wouldn't use it on a modern common rail engine because JetA1 has lower lubricity than Diesel and it could harm the close tolerance parts used these days.
As for JetA being refined to lower spec than Diesel, I don't agree with that. Some turboshafts are certified to run on Diesel, but the inspection intervals are reduced to stop filters clogging. Diesel is filthy by comparison the Jet fuel.
Agree with above - I'm a dual rated fixed wing/helicopter pilot, so have some experience of sitting behind donkeys powered with the stuff.
I've flown in aircraft (light twins) that are piston engined and run on Jet A1 but these engines are not what you're going to find in the Mercedes they were lifted from. Thielert did a lot of re-engineering work on them to make them reliable for air use when run on A1.
As regards a magic formula to make it road engine palatable, if you mix it with a little mineral engine oil in a 10/1 ratio most road engines seem to run just fine on it. But for how long? I wouldn't try it in anything that's not 1980's technology.
There are cars out there running on it though, even of their owners don't actually know it. You know all that 'spare diesel' the Polish and Latvian truckers try and sell you when you stop for a bacon butty on an A road somewhere? That's what that is - jetA1 mixed. No one actually sells legit white diesel in laybys.
I've flown in aircraft (light twins) that are piston engined and run on Jet A1 but these engines are not what you're going to find in the Mercedes they were lifted from. Thielert did a lot of re-engineering work on them to make them reliable for air use when run on A1.
As regards a magic formula to make it road engine palatable, if you mix it with a little mineral engine oil in a 10/1 ratio most road engines seem to run just fine on it. But for how long? I wouldn't try it in anything that's not 1980's technology.
There are cars out there running on it though, even of their owners don't actually know it. You know all that 'spare diesel' the Polish and Latvian truckers try and sell you when you stop for a bacon butty on an A road somewhere? That's what that is - jetA1 mixed. No one actually sells legit white diesel in laybys.
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