Car shakes violenty on ignition, Please Help!
Discussion
Hi All, I hope somebody can help or give me some advice on what may be causing me problems with my car,
Recently I purchased a brand new Sachs Clutch and Flywheel from carParts4Less, ECP's online version, everything is new and non re-manufactured.
I asked a VW specialist to fit the parts for me which they were more than happy to do, after I picked the car up everything was immediately sound but after going shopping it developed a really annoying problem
Every time I start the ignition, the car violently shakes in to life, like a real bad judder and you get a throaty rough sound come from the engine bay, this is all only for about half a second when the car initially starts up, once the car is started it drives perfect, no trouble with gear changes, no noises or knocks and no issues at Idle or speed, the jiolent shake at ignition does seem to get worse the longer it's driven, for example on the motorway i stopped off at the services, when i started the car it did it really bad.
I took the car back to the garage and explained the problem, they told me i had been supplied a faulty clutch or flywheel, so i had to buy the parts again but the problem is still there even after the second lot of new parts and i'm pulling my hair out, i've spent over £1000 so far on parts and labour and i don't know what else could be causing this problem, I'm worried the garage are going to say it's the clutch and flywheel again... what are the chances that these parts can be faulty two times in a row? They're brand new!
Can anyone give me any advice or maybe an explanation as to why this might be happening?
Car is a VW Golf Mk5 1.9 TDI 2006
Really appreciate any help, thanks!
Recently I purchased a brand new Sachs Clutch and Flywheel from carParts4Less, ECP's online version, everything is new and non re-manufactured.
I asked a VW specialist to fit the parts for me which they were more than happy to do, after I picked the car up everything was immediately sound but after going shopping it developed a really annoying problem
Every time I start the ignition, the car violently shakes in to life, like a real bad judder and you get a throaty rough sound come from the engine bay, this is all only for about half a second when the car initially starts up, once the car is started it drives perfect, no trouble with gear changes, no noises or knocks and no issues at Idle or speed, the jiolent shake at ignition does seem to get worse the longer it's driven, for example on the motorway i stopped off at the services, when i started the car it did it really bad.
I took the car back to the garage and explained the problem, they told me i had been supplied a faulty clutch or flywheel, so i had to buy the parts again but the problem is still there even after the second lot of new parts and i'm pulling my hair out, i've spent over £1000 so far on parts and labour and i don't know what else could be causing this problem, I'm worried the garage are going to say it's the clutch and flywheel again... what are the chances that these parts can be faulty two times in a row? They're brand new!
Can anyone give me any advice or maybe an explanation as to why this might be happening?
Car is a VW Golf Mk5 1.9 TDI 2006
Really appreciate any help, thanks!
So did the garage actually diagnose the problem, or did they just assume it was the clutch/flywheel?
When they dismantled the clutch did they actually check if the clutch/flywheel was the problem.
Did they then even prove afterwards that it was knackered?
I suspect the answer to all of the above is no, and I'll bet they never even gave you the (nearly) new parts back as proof, did they?
In other words they have not carried out the most basic of fault finding AT ALL!
If that is the case, you need to go back to them as they have basically not done you a good service at best & had you over at worst.
EDIT - Do you get any white "smoke" whebn you re-start, or does it use any more water than it did before?
When they dismantled the clutch did they actually check if the clutch/flywheel was the problem.
Did they then even prove afterwards that it was knackered?
I suspect the answer to all of the above is no, and I'll bet they never even gave you the (nearly) new parts back as proof, did they?
In other words they have not carried out the most basic of fault finding AT ALL!
If that is the case, you need to go back to them as they have basically not done you a good service at best & had you over at worst.
EDIT - Do you get any white "smoke" whebn you re-start, or does it use any more water than it did before?
Edited by andyiley on Tuesday 30th June 12:41
This is part of the problem with a customer supplying parts.
If you had asked the garage to supply the parts, like it or not the repairs would largely be up to them to resolve.
But since you've supplied...you're the one who'll pay for all labour.
But as above, did the garage just blindly fit new parts again, or was the flywheel actually deemed at fault ? It really shouldnt be hard to see.
If you had asked the garage to supply the parts, like it or not the repairs would largely be up to them to resolve.
But since you've supplied...you're the one who'll pay for all labour.
But as above, did the garage just blindly fit new parts again, or was the flywheel actually deemed at fault ? It really shouldnt be hard to see.
I knew it was a risk supplying the parts myself but I was saving myself £300, and the garage in question does have a good reputation on many forums so I trust them, I don't have any mechanical knowledge so I have to take their word for it, I have the parts back and they said they'll fill out the warranty form for me with fault information, I'm just concerned that because I've supplied the parts and not them, they're automatically going to assume it's the parts at fault, at first they tried making out I'd supplied a sports clutch and that the parts were given to them in normal brown boxes, I argued this because they were supplied in original sachs boxes still sealed, OEM part for my car, even now when I call them they go "Oh it was the sports clutch wasn't it?" and it's starting to grind my gears, I know what I supplied.
Depending on how Thursday pans out I may decide not to use this particular garage anymore, I feel like I am being palmed off and they're using the parts as a skape goat instead of properly diagnosing the real problem, or maybe I am super unlucky and I have been supplied two lots of faulty new parts.
Depending on how Thursday pans out I may decide not to use this particular garage anymore, I feel like I am being palmed off and they're using the parts as a skape goat instead of properly diagnosing the real problem, or maybe I am super unlucky and I have been supplied two lots of faulty new parts.
Once it starts it runs & drives perfectly with no issues whatsoever until switched off.
If the clutch was faulty I'd expect it to do it all the time.
Sounds more like a fuelling or possibly a HG issue allowing water into a cylinder(s) which is what I think andyiley is hinting at.
Wonder if they've damaged part of the wiring harness or forgotten to reconnect something?
I'd be inclined to get a diagnostics done by a competent garage.
If the clutch was faulty I'd expect it to do it all the time.
Sounds more like a fuelling or possibly a HG issue allowing water into a cylinder(s) which is what I think andyiley is hinting at.
Wonder if they've damaged part of the wiring harness or forgotten to reconnect something?
I'd be inclined to get a diagnostics done by a competent garage.
Got the car in the garage this morning, not convinced it's the clutch/flywheel for several reasons....
1, Car doesn't do the symptoms in the morning when I start the car from cold, only happens after the car is warmed up.
2, Car drives like a dream, no problem with gear changes.
3, No knocking sounds or abnormal sounds while the car is turned on.
I'm no mechanic but the whole reason I changed the clutch/flywheel in the first place was because of a thrust bearing gone, the car drives so much better now.
1, Car doesn't do the symptoms in the morning when I start the car from cold, only happens after the car is warmed up.
2, Car drives like a dream, no problem with gear changes.
3, No knocking sounds or abnormal sounds while the car is turned on.
I'm no mechanic but the whole reason I changed the clutch/flywheel in the first place was because of a thrust bearing gone, the car drives so much better now.
A nasty noise for just half a second and only when the car is in the process of being started? Gosh, what could that possibly be? It's a stumper to be sure. I wish I knew more about engines and then I might be able to divine which component only operates for the half a second when the car is being started and then plays no further part while the car is being driven.
Could it be the fueling? I'm no expert but I think that needs to be operating when the car is running too.
Could it be the head gasket. You know I think that has to work all the time too.
Oh heck. If only there was just one component that met the above requirements and had to be removed when a flywheel is being changed and actually operated against said flywheel such that an incompatibility might cause a problem or perhaps if the idiots at the garage had damaged the component during fitting but nope I can't think of anything.
Maybe someone smarter than me will come along eventually.
Could it be the fueling? I'm no expert but I think that needs to be operating when the car is running too.
Could it be the head gasket. You know I think that has to work all the time too.
Oh heck. If only there was just one component that met the above requirements and had to be removed when a flywheel is being changed and actually operated against said flywheel such that an incompatibility might cause a problem or perhaps if the idiots at the garage had damaged the component during fitting but nope I can't think of anything.
Maybe someone smarter than me will come along eventually.
Pumaracing said:
A nasty noise for just half a second and only when the car is in the process of being started? Gosh, what could that possibly be? It's a stumper to be sure. I wish I knew more about engines and then I might be able to divine which component only operates for the half a second when the car is being started and then plays no further part while the car is being driven.
Could it be the fueling? I'm no expert but I think that needs to be operating when the car is running too.
Could it be the head gasket. You know I think that has to work all the time too.
Oh heck. If only there was just one component that met the above requirements and had to be removed when a flywheel is being changed and actually operated against said flywheel such that an incompatibility might cause a problem or perhaps if the idiots at the garage had damaged the component during fitting but nope I can't think of anything.
Maybe someone smarter than me will come along eventually.
Or you could just type "Starter Motor" Could it be the fueling? I'm no expert but I think that needs to be operating when the car is running too.
Could it be the head gasket. You know I think that has to work all the time too.
Oh heck. If only there was just one component that met the above requirements and had to be removed when a flywheel is being changed and actually operated against said flywheel such that an incompatibility might cause a problem or perhaps if the idiots at the garage had damaged the component during fitting but nope I can't think of anything.
Maybe someone smarter than me will come along eventually.
OK, I know I'm now surrounded by parrots
andyiley said:
So did the garage actually diagnose the problem, or did they just assume it was the clutch/flywheel?
When they dismantled the clutch did they actually check if the clutch/flywheel was the problem.
Did they then even prove afterwards that it was knackered?
I suspect the answer to all of the above is no, and I'll bet they never even gave you the (nearly) new parts back as proof, did they?
In other words they have not carried out the most basic of fault finding AT ALL!
If that is the case, you need to go back to them as they have basically not done you a good service at best & had you over at worst.
EDIT - Do you get any white "smoke" whebn you re-start, or does it use any more water than it did before?
Never read such rubbish.When they dismantled the clutch did they actually check if the clutch/flywheel was the problem.
Did they then even prove afterwards that it was knackered?
I suspect the answer to all of the above is no, and I'll bet they never even gave you the (nearly) new parts back as proof, did they?
In other words they have not carried out the most basic of fault finding AT ALL!
If that is the case, you need to go back to them as they have basically not done you a good service at best & had you over at worst.
EDIT - Do you get any white "smoke" whebn you re-start, or does it use any more water than it did before?
Edited by andyiley on Tuesday 30th June 12:41
The garage fitted the customer supplied parts.
Drum Roll........
Garage just called me and they've had their mechanics look at it, they're adamant it's a faulty starting motor!!
going to cost £180 + VAT! Feeling like I've had a lot of pressure lifted off my shoulders now I know it's NOT the clutch and flywheel which I said all along but because I supplied the parts they automatically assumed it was dodgy parts I supplied.
Garage just called me and they've had their mechanics look at it, they're adamant it's a faulty starting motor!!
going to cost £180 + VAT! Feeling like I've had a lot of pressure lifted off my shoulders now I know it's NOT the clutch and flywheel which I said all along but because I supplied the parts they automatically assumed it was dodgy parts I supplied.
sunbeam alpine said:
Or you could just type "Starter Motor"
I rarely find it either apposite or necessary to do the completely bleedin' obvious. It could hardly be more apparent that the problem is the starter motor if there was a big comic speech bubble hanging in mid air over this sketch with the words "Hint! it's the starter motor" inside it.
The only remaining question is that of the vanishingly unlikely coincidence that the starter motor would fail at exactly the same time as some clueless apes removed and refitted it unless they'd f
ked it themselves.Oh dear. I suppose I'm compelled to give one final clarification and dire warning to the OP before the garage fks up yet again. It is obvious that the starter motor spins perfectly normally and never fails to start the car. One might even conclude that this is perfectly normal behaviour for a starter motor much as one might conclude that the Damogran Frond Crested Eagle building papier mache nests that set so hard the chicks can't break out and then die is perfectly normal behaviour for a Damogran Frond Crested Eagle - albeit less than ideal for the survival of the species.
The noise is likely caused by the incorrect meshing of the starter teeth and the flywheel ring gear teeth. Which of these is at fault though is less clear although logic would point to the item most recently replaced - the flywheel rather than the OE starter which has operated quite happily for many years.
However one may well have by now damaged the other and replacement of either alone might well not cure the problem.
ks up yet again. It is obvious that the starter motor spins perfectly normally and never fails to start the car. One might even conclude that this is perfectly normal behaviour for a starter motor much as one might conclude that the Damogran Frond Crested Eagle building papier mache nests that set so hard the chicks can't break out and then die is perfectly normal behaviour for a Damogran Frond Crested Eagle - albeit less than ideal for the survival of the species.The noise is likely caused by the incorrect meshing of the starter teeth and the flywheel ring gear teeth. Which of these is at fault though is less clear although logic would point to the item most recently replaced - the flywheel rather than the OE starter which has operated quite happily for many years.
However one may well have by now damaged the other and replacement of either alone might well not cure the problem.
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