Power loss and cloud of smoke - Turbo or Headgasket??
Discussion
Hi All,
Last weekend, I was driving down my Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi on motorway engine lost power, loads of white smoke came through exhaust and then car wouldnt move. I had driven around 50 miles without any oil or when the problem kicked in, it drained the entire oil. Engine would cut off as soon as gear is engaged (automatic). Tried starting next day morning but engine struggled and wouldnt run for long, just for 10 seconds max then cuts off. Grey smoke with unbrunt diesel smell. Tried second time, didnt start at all. Tried again today morning, lasted only for 10 seconds and cut off. Second time didnt start-same again.
Could this be:
Blown turbo? (turbo failed engine still would run but car wouldnt move - please correct me if I'm wrong)
Blown headgasket? (engine wouldnt start due to lack of pressure in the combustion chamber - please correct me if I'm wrong)
Or any other mechanical faults?
Any thoughts would be higly appreciated.
Cheers
Last weekend, I was driving down my Peugeot 407 2.0 HDi on motorway engine lost power, loads of white smoke came through exhaust and then car wouldnt move. I had driven around 50 miles without any oil or when the problem kicked in, it drained the entire oil. Engine would cut off as soon as gear is engaged (automatic). Tried starting next day morning but engine struggled and wouldnt run for long, just for 10 seconds max then cuts off. Grey smoke with unbrunt diesel smell. Tried second time, didnt start at all. Tried again today morning, lasted only for 10 seconds and cut off. Second time didnt start-same again.
Could this be:
Blown turbo? (turbo failed engine still would run but car wouldnt move - please correct me if I'm wrong)
Blown headgasket? (engine wouldnt start due to lack of pressure in the combustion chamber - please correct me if I'm wrong)
Or any other mechanical faults?
Any thoughts would be higly appreciated.
Cheers
Probably the turbo, and you might have been pretty lucky that you didn't cause a runaway where the engine runs off the oil.
Switching the ignition off can't stop this (usually), and your engine revs its nuts off until it runs out of oil and literally grinds to a halt, or something breaks.
It could be headgasket related, but I do think the turbo is more likely.
Switching the ignition off can't stop this (usually), and your engine revs its nuts off until it runs out of oil and literally grinds to a halt, or something breaks.
It could be headgasket related, but I do think the turbo is more likely.
Thanks all 
Well(Im not gonna jump into it), I didnt check the oil level before I set off (now I know how daft it was) and yes yes yes....I did drive 50 odd miles. The engine could have had oil in it and the problem burnt them all? Theres no oil leak what so ever.
Sorry I forgot to mention that part. I hired a recovery truck to get the car home and next day I did top it up with oil- yet didnt start. Now when I try to accelerate, it wouldnt accelerate.
I want to try to fix the problem by myself. For that I want to know where to start from.
Cheers
Well(Im not gonna jump into it), I didnt check the oil level before I set off (now I know how daft it was) and yes yes yes....I did drive 50 odd miles. The engine could have had oil in it and the problem burnt them all? Theres no oil leak what so ever.
Sorry I forgot to mention that part. I hired a recovery truck to get the car home and next day I did top it up with oil- yet didnt start. Now when I try to accelerate, it wouldnt accelerate.
I want to try to fix the problem by myself. For that I want to know where to start from.
Cheers
How about a blocked EGR or fuel pump or injector or plug? Engine sound is bit louder, more like theres is a leak in the exhaust.
From my ananlysis, engine wouldn't run for more than 10 seconds. So lack of fuel/air supply?
From my ananlysis, engine wouldn't run for more than 10 seconds. So lack of fuel/air supply?
Edited by zakmuh on Tuesday 30th June 14:05
Edited by zakmuh on Tuesday 30th June 14:10
An update:
I jacked up the car and went underneath. The turbo unit is leaking black oil and couple of bolts and nuts missing in the bracket. It looks like the garage guy did a cowboy job. From all these I think I can confirm I need to repair/replace the turbo
I thought I'd cut the cost buy taking it off myself but it looks like no way I can access it from the bottom. No enough room on top. Moving the engine forward to access turbo by removing the engine mount- might knacker the AC piping?
Any advice?
I jacked up the car and went underneath. The turbo unit is leaking black oil and couple of bolts and nuts missing in the bracket. It looks like the garage guy did a cowboy job. From all these I think I can confirm I need to repair/replace the turbo
I thought I'd cut the cost buy taking it off myself but it looks like no way I can access it from the bottom. No enough room on top. Moving the engine forward to access turbo by removing the engine mount- might knacker the AC piping?
Any advice?
Turbo comes out from the bottom. Tight but do-able. However, really really however, if you ran the engine for that length of time, it's likely to be lunched.
Also have a think why the turbo failed - usual cause is bad maintenance.
If you want to do the job, I'd be thinking to hoick the engine out, and stick a used one back in. The 2.0 Hdis are normally pretty reliable (unlike their 1.6 sister) so should be pretty cheap. Put a recon turbo on, new flywheel, and clutch, do the cam belt while you're at it, then cut out the EGR and any DPF, and remap to 170bhp, and you have a decent car, and one that will do 50 mpg.
Just my thoughts.
Also have a think why the turbo failed - usual cause is bad maintenance.
If you want to do the job, I'd be thinking to hoick the engine out, and stick a used one back in. The 2.0 Hdis are normally pretty reliable (unlike their 1.6 sister) so should be pretty cheap. Put a recon turbo on, new flywheel, and clutch, do the cam belt while you're at it, then cut out the EGR and any DPF, and remap to 170bhp, and you have a decent car, and one that will do 50 mpg.
Just my thoughts.
zakmuh said:
Thanks to everyone for your valuable advice. Now I know where to start from.
Cheers
No you clearly don't. Your inability to even describe the problem succinctly and logically and in the order of what actually occurred points to a similar inability to ever be able to diagnose or repair something as complex as a modern engine. If you were ever a witness at a crime scene trying to describe to the police what you saw they'd probably give up and arrest you for wasting police time or just shoot you to put you out of their misery.Cheers
No possible problem with a turbo, even its complete removal, would prevent the engine from starting and running in zero boost mode if the engine itself were still ok. However as we seem to be able to deduce from the garbled verbiage that after the engine has stopped running there was no oil at all left in it then it would seem reasonably apparent that the engine is almost certainly toast. It is an ex engine. It is no more. It has gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life, kicked the bucket. If it wasn't bolted into the engine bay it'd be pushing up daisies. It has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible.
It is most unlikely to be just sleepin' or pinin' for the fjords.
Pumaracing said:
zakmuh said:
Thanks to everyone for your valuable advice. Now I know where to start from.
Cheers
No you clearly don't. Your inability to even describe the problem succinctly and logically and in the order of what actually occurred points to a similar inability to ever be able to diagnose or repair something as complex as a modern engine. If you were ever a witness at a crime scene trying to describe to the police what you saw they'd probably give up and arrest you for wasting police time or just shoot you to put you out of their misery.Cheers
No possible problem with a turbo, even its complete removal, would prevent the engine from starting and running in zero boost mode if the engine itself were still ok. However as we seem to be able to deduce from the garbled verbiage that after the engine has stopped running there was no oil at all left in it then it would seem reasonably apparent that the engine is almost certainly toast. It is an ex engine. It is no more. It has gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life, kicked the bucket. If it wasn't bolted into the engine bay it'd be pushing up daisies. It has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible.
It is most unlikely to be just sleepin' or pinin' for the fjords.
Just a quick update guys....I managed to take all the parts around the engine, unmount all three mounts and pull it forward (tilted it more likely) and exposed the turbo. I subscribed to Servicebox and downloaded the turbo remove/refitting manual for this. By now I can say that turbo leak has sent all the engine oil into all the hoses, intercooler and even into the air intake unit (God this is damn serious).
I think I would need two more weeks to get the car sorted. Oh well!
I think I would need two more weeks to get the car sorted. Oh well!
Pumaracing said:
No you clearly don't. Your inability to even describe the problem succinctly and logically and in the order of what actually occurred points to a similar inability to ever be able to diagnose or repair something as complex as a modern engine. If you were ever a witness at a crime scene trying to describe to the police what you saw they'd probably give up and arrest you for wasting police time or just shoot you to put you out of their misery.
No possible problem with a turbo, even its complete removal, would prevent the engine from starting and running in zero boost mode if the engine itself were still ok. However as we seem to be able to deduce from the garbled verbiage that after the engine has stopped running there was no oil at all left in it then it would seem reasonably apparent that the engine is almost certainly toast. It is an ex engine. It is no more. It has gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life, kicked the bucket. If it wasn't bolted into the engine bay it'd be pushing up daisies. It has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible.
It is most unlikely to be just sleepin' or pinin' for the fjords.
Was interested in the topic and was a bit taken aback as to your response so looked at some of the other topics you'd responded to... why are you so rude to people? What do you get out of it?No possible problem with a turbo, even its complete removal, would prevent the engine from starting and running in zero boost mode if the engine itself were still ok. However as we seem to be able to deduce from the garbled verbiage that after the engine has stopped running there was no oil at all left in it then it would seem reasonably apparent that the engine is almost certainly toast. It is an ex engine. It is no more. It has gone to meet its maker. It's a stiff, bereft of life, kicked the bucket. If it wasn't bolted into the engine bay it'd be pushing up daisies. It has shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible.
It is most unlikely to be just sleepin' or pinin' for the fjords.
dern said:
Was interested in the topic and was a bit taken aback as to your response so looked at some of the other topics you'd responded to... why are you so rude to people? What do you get out of it?
For most part his rudeness is either banter with people who knows...or responses to completely and utterly f
ktard stupid questions or posts.Some are quite amusing too.
SOLVED!
It's been a year since I managed to fix the car by myself *PHEW*. I thought I'd update this thread. Before I stated any work on it, I spent like a month reading lots of threads and having a word with local mechanics and cab drivers. The work I had carried out below is a combination of all the opinion I got from them..
Actually I hadn't driven the car without engine oil. It had very dirty oil and that knackered the turbo bearing, sucked oil into the air inlet, intercooler and combustion chamber! Because of this I coudln't start the car at all. Few of garages advised me to replace ECU/injector/fule pump etc.
Works I did...
. Sucked the engine oil out of cumbustion chamber using 'vaccum oil extractor, which I got it from Ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Litre-Petrol-Oil-Fluid...
. Sprayed 'carbon cleaner' liquid (more like foam)into the combustion chamber and sucked it out after letting it soak for a couple of mins
. Got all the pipes, air inlet manifold and inertcooler cleaned through a local radiator engineers
. Gave the turbo to a local turbo remanufacturer, got it repaired (Á £250) and put it back - turbo removal was a nightmware job!!
. Flushed the engine - few metal particles found in the sump
Left the car untouched for a couple days and gave it a try starting it. It didnt start, kept trying for about ten times and eventually it did start *YAAY*. Took the car for a spin but it was very slow, had a power loss. It's been like this for a day or two and then it started its normal runnig....no more issues afterwards.
Hope this helps
Zak
It's been a year since I managed to fix the car by myself *PHEW*. I thought I'd update this thread. Before I stated any work on it, I spent like a month reading lots of threads and having a word with local mechanics and cab drivers. The work I had carried out below is a combination of all the opinion I got from them..
Actually I hadn't driven the car without engine oil. It had very dirty oil and that knackered the turbo bearing, sucked oil into the air inlet, intercooler and combustion chamber! Because of this I coudln't start the car at all. Few of garages advised me to replace ECU/injector/fule pump etc.
Works I did...
. Sucked the engine oil out of cumbustion chamber using 'vaccum oil extractor, which I got it from Ebay - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-Litre-Petrol-Oil-Fluid...
. Sprayed 'carbon cleaner' liquid (more like foam)into the combustion chamber and sucked it out after letting it soak for a couple of mins
. Got all the pipes, air inlet manifold and inertcooler cleaned through a local radiator engineers
. Gave the turbo to a local turbo remanufacturer, got it repaired (Á £250) and put it back - turbo removal was a nightmware job!!
. Flushed the engine - few metal particles found in the sump
Left the car untouched for a couple days and gave it a try starting it. It didnt start, kept trying for about ten times and eventually it did start *YAAY*. Took the car for a spin but it was very slow, had a power loss. It's been like this for a day or two and then it started its normal runnig....no more issues afterwards.
Hope this helps
Zak
Edited by zakmuh on Friday 13th May 13:11
Edited by zakmuh on Friday 13th May 13:28
Edited by zakmuh on Friday 13th May 13:31
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