White smoke on start up

White smoke on start up

Author
Discussion

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Thursday 13th August 2015
quotequote all
Hi all... ok so this is driving me mad. just cant get to the bottom of it...

i have a navara pickup with a 2.7 terrano tdi in it.

on cold start it bellows out white smoke, runs rough, then stalls. i can rev through it with a bit of throttle (to avoid stalling) but the strange thing is, after that the engine runs, pulls and starts just fine, until the next day.

at first it was intermittent, now its every morning. changing the fuel filter cured it for a few weeks. now its back and worse than ever.

glow plugs work perfectly.

heres a vid of it: http://cloud.cliffdesign.co.uk/cE9B

my hunch is air or water... any thoughts?


andyiley

9,220 posts

152 months

Thursday 13th August 2015
quotequote all
That won't be white smoke, it will be un burnt diesel.

You need to be looking at injectors/diesel timing/fuel system.

If I was to guess(I am no diesel expert) I would be thinking you have an injector leaking into the combustion chamber overnight.

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Thursday 13th August 2015
quotequote all
hmm interesting theory. no one has nentioned that before.

certainly worth putting a fresh set of injectors in anyway. it will freshen up the system and either elimiate the diagnosis or fix it!

Pumaracing

2,089 posts

207 months

Thursday 13th August 2015
quotequote all
FlavaDave said:
glow plugs work perfectly.
How do you know? Have you tested every one with a multimeter?

andyiley

9,220 posts

152 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
You are correct to question, of course, and it is a very valid question, but at this time of year, is it really likely to be the issue.

Edited by andyiley on Friday 14th August 09:39

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Glow plugs work perfectly... tested with multimeter, tested relay, ive even had them all out and watched them glow.

trust me they work.

andyiley

9,220 posts

152 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
On start-up you need to smell the "smoke" to check it is not steam, but I am sure it will be diesel.

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
yeah just started it now its diesel.

it coughed, spluttered and stalled.

turned the key again and its running fine.

andyiley

9,220 posts

152 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
In that case it is pretty much confirmed that you have leaky injectors, so the fuel pressure remaining in the fuel lines is leaking down into the combustion chamber/s when the engine is turned off.

EDIT.

The only other thing I could think of is if it has a cold start jet & this could be flooding the engine with fuel on start-up.

Edited by andyiley on Friday 14th August 12:58

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Yes, that is beginning to make sense... I have a feeling the injectors are quite costly. Any way of checking for the leaky one without sending them all off?

It's not a common rail.

crossy67

1,570 posts

179 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Check your oil level too. I it seems high then you are either Jed Clampit and have discovered an oil making machine or the diesel is seeping into your oil. Too much oil in a diesel can be catastrophic.

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
the oil level is about at maximum... perhaps youre right as i would have expected it to have dropped slightly from the lst oil change?

how would diesel get in there?

crossy67

1,570 posts

179 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
Injector drips into the cylinder, this in turn seeps past the rings into the oil.

Pumaracing

2,089 posts

207 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
FlavaDave said:
Glow plugs work perfectly... tested with multimeter, tested relay, ive even had them all out and watched them glow.

trust me they work.
Then unless a cylinder is very down on compression it's obviously an injector leak.

mighty kitten

431 posts

133 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
If it's done 120k or more it's likely to be a pump issue especially if it's boosting and running well once it's run for a couple of minutes

mighty kitten

431 posts

133 months

Friday 14th August 2015
quotequote all
If it's done 120k or more it's likely to be a pump issue especially if it's boosting and running well once it's run for a couple of minutes

andyiley

9,220 posts

152 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
Generally I think diesel injectors can be refurbished, try googling local places that may do this.

The last set I had done (admittedly they were petrol C/R injectors) cost around £100 for 6 to be done.

Probably worth doing anyway.

Don't see how it could be the pump, as if the injectors were ok how would the pump pump diesel past the injectors?

mighty kitten

431 posts

133 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
Suction valve on the pump wears . Poor start White smoke and cutting out unless you keep the rpm up .

anonymous-user

54 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
For a diesel, the start is the hard bit!

Because compression ignition engines rely on the heat of compression to initiate combustion, they can be quite picky about starting!

The "heat" bit comes from the compression, so leaky rings, slow cranking or incorrect valve timing all can reduce that bit

The "fuel" bit requires nicely atomised fuel in the correct quantities. Large droplets of fuel, caused by low rail pressure at start or worn injector nozzles, are difficult to heat up, and tend to stick to the cold walls of the cylinder. And worse, if the cylinder fails to fire on the first few turns, the injector keeps on pumping in more fuel, which cools the cylinder even more, making it even less likely to fire! And when it does, all the liquid diesel gets chucked out into the exhaust and burnt at low pressure and temperaure, effectively creating a smoke screen out back!


So, here are the test you need to do BEFORE you spend any money changing stuff:

1) Check glow plugs - done!
2) Check it cranks at a decent speed (no knackered battery or stater motor)
3) Do a cold cranking compression test
4) Log, ideally using an OBD tool, the fuel rail pressure prior to, during, and after a start event. You could also use a multimeter to read the pressure sensor output, but it's not ideal, as you want to see pressure vs engine speed. (worn HP pumps are less efective at low speed, leading to low rail pressures at cranking)
5) If that all looks normal, out with the injectors and get them tested and re-conditioned


Most people, just throw a new set of injectors at the problem BEFORE they work out what is actually wrong with it, It could be as simple as a failing rail pressure sensor or lift pump.......

FlavaDave

Original Poster:

213 posts

159 months

Sunday 16th August 2015
quotequote all
Max_Torque said:
1) Check glow plugs - done!
2) Check it cranks at a decent speed (no knackered battery or stater motor)
3) Do a cold cranking compression test
4) Log, ideally using an OBD tool, the fuel rail pressure prior to, during, and after a start event. You could also use a multimeter to read the pressure sensor output, but it's not ideal, as you want to see pressure vs engine speed. (worn HP pumps are less efective at low speed, leading to low rail pressures at cranking)
5) If that all looks normal, out with the injectors and get them tested and re-conditioned
Great help thanks, but I'm not equipped well enough to investigate 2, and 3 at home :-/

And it's not a common rail so 4 is irrelevant...?

And a friend of mine fixed a similar problem with a new alternator. The crank speed was just slow enough to cause a problem, although barely noticeable with the ear/eye.