Broken drive shaft 1.4 Golf

[B3ALP]

Looking for any suggestions or experience here folks.
My Lad has a 2003 1.4 16v Golf. It has just snapped its 3rd NSF inner drive shaft.
We bought it last June for him to learn in he passed his test in Ocotber and all was fine,
we had the clutch changed in January at the same time it was noted the large gearbox mount had broken so this was replaced also. The Drive shaft broke in May while turning right. It then broke again about 100 miles later while turning right and it has just broken again 700 miles later while turning right.

I cannot find anything obvious and neither can my (very trusted) mechanic.

I have put a lot of work into this car for the lad and it would be a shame to have to give up on it.

Any help / advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[andyiley]

My only suggestion would be if it is snapping at the same end to also change the UJ/CV at that end too, if it hasn't been already.

You could also check the bump stops to make sure the UJ/CV isn't being allowed to turn too far.

[rb5er]

Get a focus.

[Mr2Mike]

Is it the shaft itself actually snapping, or is it just a broken cv joint?

[Pumaracing]

With the front tyres in the normal straight ahead position mark 12 o'clock on the steering wheel. Count the number of turns/part turns to full right lock and full left lock. If they differ then the steering rack is not centralised and the steering wheel has been moved on its splines or some part of the rack mechanism/end stops is faulty.

[andyiley]

Surely, all that would do is to affect the position of the steering wheel at the straight ahead position as the steering rack input pinion is what I would expect to govern the output of the rack & the wheel & steering shaft can be aligned anywhere to do that.

[Mr2Mike]

andyiley said:

Surely, all that would do is to affect the position of the steering wheel at the straight ahead position as the steering rack input pinion is what I would expect to govern the output of the rack & the wheel & steering shaft can be aligned anywhere to do that.

If one of the track rod ends is screwed in most the way and the other is hanging on by a few threads, then you will get a significant asymmetry in the available lock.

[Pumaracing]

andyiley said:

Surely, all that would do is to affect the position of the steering wheel at the straight ahead position as the steering rack input pinion is what I would expect to govern the output of the rack & the wheel & steering shaft can be aligned anywhere to do that.

I suggest you google for a diagram of how rack and pinion steering works and ponder it again. The steering wheel is irrelevant in this other than as a means to measure the travel from. What is relevant is whether the tracking was last set up with the tyres straight ahead with the rack in the centre of its travel or not. Most tracking places will just centre the steering wheel first with no regard to whether this has been incorrectly fitted at some point.

The consequence can be that instead of getting say 30 degrees full right lock and the same 30 degrees full left lock on the front wheels you get say 35 degrees right lock and only 25 to the left. Result is the driveshafts get ripped out or broken when full right lock is applied. Simples.

[Pumaracing]

Mr2Mike said:

If one of the track rod ends is screwed in most the way and the other is hanging on by a few threads, then you will get a significant asymmetry in the available lock.

I can tell you just how big that asymmetry can be in practice. Some 20 years or more ago I had an old Mk2 Fiesta XR2. Although there were no steering problems in normal driving I gradually came to notice that it was much easier turning into my driveway if I came in from one end of my road and turned in right than if I came from the other end of the road and turned in left.

I checked the steering wheel travel each way and it was miles out although the wheel was properly centered on a straight road. I whipped the steering wheel off and instead of a spline on that model there was a hex and the wheel was one flat out of position i.e. 60 degrees so I was actually getting a massive 120 degrees at the steering wheel more lock one way than the other. That equated to about 25% more degrees of front wheel travel one way than the other.

A quick look underneath and sure enough there was about an inch more track rod end thread exposed at one side than the other. I moved the steering wheel round one flat, centered it again, readjusted the track rod ends to align the tracking again and no more parking problems.

[mighty kitten]

Nothing to do with your sons driving style ? The Lobro type inner joints are pretty tough and I've not seen an inner joint break on these .

[mighty kitten]

Nothing to do with your sons driving style ? The Lobro type inner joints are pretty tough and I've not seen an inner joint break on these .

[andyiley]

OK, I get what you mean about the wheel being out & the TREs being un-centred also, however surely that would still not cause this issue, as it is still the bump stops that prevent "over turning" the steering & therefore the CV.

Yes, I know it is in the area & should be checked as part of the investigation anyway, but as to whether it would cause this, I would still be doubting that.

[Mr2Mike]

andyiley said:

OK, I get what you mean about the wheel being out & the TREs being un-centred also, however surely that would still not cause this issue, as it is still the bump stops that prevent "over turning" the steering & therefore the CV.

Bump stops have nothing to do with the steering, they are used in the suspension dampers to prevent them bottoming out violently. The total steering lock is limited only by the steering rack itself, and will be asymmetric if the TREs have not be adjusted correctly.

Operating a CV joint at an excessive angle will, without doubt, cause premature failure. However, the OP hasn't clarified whether it's the CV joint or the driveshaft itself that is breaking.

Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 27th August 21:06

[Pumaracing]

I don't know what you intend to mean by the term "bump stops" but the angle to which the front wheels can be turned is normally limited solely by the travel on the steering rack and if you've got 2/3 of that on one side of straight ahead and only 1/3 on the other side then you've got a problem.

Try disconnecting a track rod end sometime and see where you can then point the wheel and tyre.

Edited by Pumaracing on Thursday 27th August 21:34

[andyiley]

Yes, OK, I see what you mean now, you are 100% correct, when I said bump stops my terminology was incorrect, I meant end stops on the rack itself.

[Sardonicus]

Sorry but I am slightly biased as I have seen it all before but recent clutch after purchase gearbox mounting broken drive-shaft issues can you see a pattern emerging? I know I can (on the tools too long) never known that model Golf to have drive-shaft snapping issues unless serious corrosion was a factor which it cant be in this case

Edited by Sardonicus on Friday 28th August 12:08

[imagineifyeswill]

Have you actually gone for a run in the car with this boy or seen how he normally drives it, clutch replaced, broken gear box mounting and three broken driveshafts suggests to me frequent tyre howling standing starts.

[B3ALP]

Its fair to question the driving habits after all he is 18 But to clear a few things up I bought the car knowing it would need a clutch very soon and that the gearbox mount required changing and I negotiated the price accordingly.
I have been in the car with him once when it broke and we were just turning right at normal speed. No marks at all on tyres or wheels (brand new and refurbed last year) to suggest curbing. As for ripping starts I have no doubt about it BUT i have been doing that since I was 18 (1985) in many front wheel drive cars over the years ( until I saw the light and went RWD in the 90'S) and have never once broken a drive shaft.

Edited by B3ALP on Wednesday 2nd September 08:46

Edited by B3ALP on Wednesday 2nd September 09:25

Edited by B3ALP on Wednesday 2nd September 09:26

[227bhp]

imagineifyeswill said:

Have you actually gone for a run in the car with this boy or seen how he normally drives it, clutch replaced, broken gear box mounting and three broken driveshafts suggests to me frequent tyre howling standing starts.

You acted the same way with your Dad as you did when out with your mates?

[B3ALP]

227bhp said:

You acted the same way with your Dad as you did when out with your mates?