Modern TD engines
Discussion
I often get asked as a mechanic why do i drive a 27 year old TD pickup truck and not a more modern vehical with all that great extra power and MPG ?
Well this is why \/
Back ground is, citroen dispatch 1.6 HDI, owned from new, serviced regular IE 6K on the dot, millage now at 98K.
It recently came in for a it's 10 year timming belt and water pump change and could i find out what the new rattle was, the new rattle was the timming chain tensioner had shatterd resulting in a top end rebuild, nowt exciting there but what i found in this well serviced and looked after van was !
si using lots of this
and about 5 litres of astonish oven cleaner !
i got a lot of this out
Leaving this
The actual head inlet runners where blcked even worse but they needed 4 hours on and off with a blow lamp to burn off the oils leaving only the carbon i could hoover out ( i blew up 3 hoovers doing this so find a cheap/scrap one first) .
Other residue from the clean up
Total bill for this was ni on a grand (with 2 new CVs discs and pads), that was mates rates and took about a week to compleat.
just thought i'd share what i do daily and why i drive that old shed of a pickup, without and EGR and without a highly stressed turbo, all turbos let by some oil but add this to the crap an egr add into the inlet and you have a sticky paist that is simply a b
h to remove, in fact 2 walls of my workshop now need re whitewashing due to the filthy black ste splashing all over the dam place, my overalls are fit only for the bin and my fingernails will be black for weeks, i hate diesel oil and soot !!!
Well this is why \/
Back ground is, citroen dispatch 1.6 HDI, owned from new, serviced regular IE 6K on the dot, millage now at 98K.
It recently came in for a it's 10 year timming belt and water pump change and could i find out what the new rattle was, the new rattle was the timming chain tensioner had shatterd resulting in a top end rebuild, nowt exciting there but what i found in this well serviced and looked after van was !
si using lots of this
and about 5 litres of astonish oven cleaner !
i got a lot of this out
Leaving this
The actual head inlet runners where blcked even worse but they needed 4 hours on and off with a blow lamp to burn off the oils leaving only the carbon i could hoover out ( i blew up 3 hoovers doing this so find a cheap/scrap one first) .
Other residue from the clean up
Total bill for this was ni on a grand (with 2 new CVs discs and pads), that was mates rates and took about a week to compleat.
just thought i'd share what i do daily and why i drive that old shed of a pickup, without and EGR and without a highly stressed turbo, all turbos let by some oil but add this to the crap an egr add into the inlet and you have a sticky paist that is simply a b
h to remove, in fact 2 walls of my workshop now need re whitewashing due to the filthy black ste splashing all over the dam place, my overalls are fit only for the bin and my fingernails will be black for weeks, i hate diesel oil and soot !!!These engines are ste, they are fitted in Focus Mazda and volvos, they eat turbos before breakfast, and we ran 15 belingo vans for 3 years then out they went, serviced on the dot oil hot and engine flush every time. PSA/Ford should be ashamed. This engine family is not alone in it's horrendous failings just wait for the FSI epidemic to start inlet coking and failed emissions when they are 3 years old MIL lights galore the indies will have a field day when punters get fed up with £60 diagnostic bills and ££££££££ repair bills for what is basically design faults at the main stealers
te, they are fitted in Focus Mazda and volvos, they eat turbos before breakfast, and we ran 15 belingo vans for 3 years then out they went, serviced on the dot oil hot and engine flush every time. PSA/Ford should be ashamed. This engine family is not alone in it's horrendous failings just wait for the FSI epidemic to start inlet coking and failed emissions when they are 3 years old MIL lights galore the indies will have a field day when punters get fed up with £60 diagnostic bills and ££££££££ repair bills for what is basically design faults at the main stealersYep wont get an argument from me there chap 
This one ate it's first turbo at 45K but the 2nd (rebuilt by Essex turbos) is still going fine with no play or end float at 98K, still breaths heavy but you cant have it all
When i started to strip the top end 2 of the injector clamps were loose as in hand tight but no blowby ! where as i have a C5 outside to do next that has 3 injectors with blowby, in fact the oil from a rocker leak is flying all around the engine bay with the combustion gasses that are leaking out POSs the lot of em, hense my choice of daily, a pug 105 non turbo 1.5D and a tatty pick up from the late 80s, both clean as a whistle (well, a lot cleaner than this anyway lol) inside after well over 100K
Had a few sprinters in with blowing injector seals but this is pretty much the worst i've had, awfull design and not built to be taken appart!
This one ate it's first turbo at 45K but the 2nd (rebuilt by Essex turbos) is still going fine with no play or end float at 98K, still breaths heavy but you cant have it all
When i started to strip the top end 2 of the injector clamps were loose as in hand tight but no blowby ! where as i have a C5 outside to do next that has 3 injectors with blowby, in fact the oil from a rocker leak is flying all around the engine bay with the combustion gasses that are leaking out POSs the lot of em, hense my choice of daily, a pug 105 non turbo 1.5D and a tatty pick up from the late 80s, both clean as a whistle (well, a lot cleaner than this anyway lol) inside after well over 100K
Had a few sprinters in with blowing injector seals but this is pretty much the worst i've had, awfull design and not built to be taken appart!
S0 What said:
3 days on the C5 and still only got 1 injector out !
when they start to chuff get them out as soon as you can, the resulting crap relly sticks the buggers in there !!!
the chap at our local scrap yard is really good at getting engines out of these french heaps !! once he's tracked his machine on to the back of the car or van its not long before he pulls the bonnet off and gets the grab round the engine they soon arrive where they belong .....in a large skip!!! when they start to chuff get them out as soon as you can, the resulting crap relly sticks the buggers in there !!!
S0 What said:
Finaly got the injectors out with an air hammer and removal tool, unfortunatly one bought the tube that goes through the head out with it, more work 
i hate these DV6 engines with a passion 
Though TBF i hate most modern diesel engines
But to be fair, you're only going to get lots of work from the crap ones. Plenty of very modern Diesel engines are clocking up huge mileages without major work. i hate these DV6 engines with a passion Though TBF i hate most modern diesel engines
Tony1963 said:
But to be fair, you're only going to get lots of work from the crap ones. Plenty of very modern Diesel engines are clocking up huge mileages without major work.
Quite a few DV6 engines have clocked up big miles, but they are an inherently crap engine IME. Probably one of the least reliable of the modern diesels.I agree wholeheartedly with So What. I have run diesels for many years, my first being a Perkins conversion in an E model Cresta in 1959. Since then I have run a number of home converted cars until the Citroen diesels came along with the CX, that was so good I didn't feel the necessity to make my own any more.
I ran CX's then XM's and now have a C5 which is not nearly as good. The CX's and XMs were good for 300k or more. In my opinion the best diesel they have made is the early 8 valve Hdi used in the 406 and early C5. I have a 406 estate that has done nearly 250k and still has the original clutch and DMF - and head gasket!. I have just bought my second one and passed my first one on to my son, I am hoping I shall be able to run these until I can't drive any more.
The C5 has the same engine but somehow seems to be less reliable although that has done 200k+ and is still mostly original. If you want a cheap, reliable car that you can still repair yourself get a 2.0. Hdi 406.
Peter
I ran CX's then XM's and now have a C5 which is not nearly as good. The CX's and XMs were good for 300k or more. In my opinion the best diesel they have made is the early 8 valve Hdi used in the 406 and early C5. I have a 406 estate that has done nearly 250k and still has the original clutch and DMF - and head gasket!. I have just bought my second one and passed my first one on to my son, I am hoping I shall be able to run these until I can't drive any more.
The C5 has the same engine but somehow seems to be less reliable although that has done 200k+ and is still mostly original. If you want a cheap, reliable car that you can still repair yourself get a 2.0. Hdi 406.
Peter
Sardonicus said:
God bless the PSA XUD engine and VW 8 valve Diesels
no modern Diesels cut the mustard for me apart from performance
Apart from those VW 8 valve diesels that are prone to putting con rods through the block... no modern Diesels cut the mustard for me apart from performance Mr2Mike said:
Apart from those VW 8 valve diesels that are prone to putting con rods through the block...
Not counting those 
the single cam 1.5/1.6/1.9 gets my vote 
Using a fuel system cleaner will not cure any of the problems i had, you need to introduce a cleaner via the AIRways not fuel, it's oil mist from the turbo combined with the soot from the EGR that blocks the inlet
That's the trouble with modern TDs, as manufacturers chase high power via high boost prssures the higher the combustion chamber temps get and hense more NOX, so they cool them with ex gas via the EGR and there's the issue! soot and oil
My old 1.8 TD with 70 BHP, low boost and no EGR is clean as the perverbial whistle inside the inlet (small oil drop out deposits aside) and it shows lower on the particulate test thnn 99% of the moderns i take in for a test
My pug non turbo still shows the clean alloy on the inside of the inlet after 152K, people are the problem IMHO if they just accepted diesels are slow and stopped buying high powerd clag machines i wouldn't have to repaint the workshop 4 times a year to rid the walls of the black ste that splashes every dam where
That's the trouble with modern TDs, as manufacturers chase high power via high boost prssures the higher the combustion chamber temps get and hense more NOX, so they cool them with ex gas via the EGR and there's the issue! soot and oil
My old 1.8 TD with 70 BHP, low boost and no EGR is clean as the perverbial whistle inside the inlet (small oil drop out deposits aside) and it shows lower on the particulate test thnn 99% of the moderns i take in for a test
My pug non turbo still shows the clean alloy on the inside of the inlet after 152K, people are the problem IMHO if they just accepted diesels are slow and stopped buying high powerd clag machines i wouldn't have to repaint the workshop 4 times a year to rid the walls of the black s
te that splashes every dam where S0 What said:
Using a fuel system cleaner will not cure any of the problems i had, you need to introduce a cleaner via the AIRways not fuel, it's oil mist from the turbo combined with the soot from the EGR that blocks the inlet
That's the trouble with modern TDs, as manufacturers chase high power via high boost prssures the higher the combustion chamber temps get and hense more NOX, so they cool them with ex gas via the EGR and there's the issue! soot and oil
My old 1.8 TD with 70 BHP, low boost and no EGR is clean as the perverbial whistle inside the inlet (small oil drop out deposits aside) and it shows lower on the particulate test thnn 99% of the moderns i take in for a test
My pug non turbo still shows the clean alloy on the inside of the inlet after 152K, people are the problem IMHO if they just accepted diesels are slow and stopped buying high powerd clag machines i wouldn't have to repaint the workshop 4 times a year to rid the walls of the black ste that splashes every dam where
It practical to blank off or remove the EGR? I assume it woudl need to be ther at MOT time, but I wonder would it upset the ECU if it was isolated.That's the trouble with modern TDs, as manufacturers chase high power via high boost prssures the higher the combustion chamber temps get and hense more NOX, so they cool them with ex gas via the EGR and there's the issue! soot and oil
My old 1.8 TD with 70 BHP, low boost and no EGR is clean as the perverbial whistle inside the inlet (small oil drop out deposits aside) and it shows lower on the particulate test thnn 99% of the moderns i take in for a test
My pug non turbo still shows the clean alloy on the inside of the inlet after 152K, people are the problem IMHO if they just accepted diesels are slow and stopped buying high powerd clag machines i wouldn't have to repaint the workshop 4 times a year to rid the walls of the black s
te that splashes every dam where BogBeast said:
It practical to blank off or remove the EGR? I assume it woudl need to be ther at MOT time, but I wonder would it upset the ECU if it was isolated.
It definitely flags an error on some (if not all) cars since the ECU is expecting a see a reduction in inlet airflow when the EGR is activated (as measured by the MAF).Gassing Station | Engines & Drivetrain | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff