Heating oil in common rail diesel
Discussion
In the real world this is the way it happens, provided you mix it with a decent slug of normal diesel then a roadside check won't detect it. I had a friend who ran an old-school Astra diesel on veg oil when it was cheap. He could regularly be seen at Netto buying trolley loads of 5L containers of the stuff.
It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
With common rail diesels and kerosene I'm sure lubricity is the main factor to get right. I've looked at everything I can find on Google but there are no definite answers. I found a fascinating document from the US military when they were trying to get a single fuel source to work in everything, planes, tanks, trucks etc. Jet fuel is near as dammit kerosene and it did wear out diesel pumps but the reasons were complex. The zinc in engine oil would appear to clag injectors up eventually which is a pain if that's used to aid lubricity. A vegetable oil would be nice to try but that's expensive these days.
mph1977 said:
Evanivitch said:
Hainey said:
Get caught with a hidden fuel system and you'll get the jail. Seriously.
Why? There's a 2500 litre allowance for using bio fuel that is duty free.Hainey said:
mph1977 said:
Evanivitch said:
Hainey said:
Get caught with a hidden fuel system and you'll get the jail. Seriously.
Why? There's a 2500 litre allowance for using bio fuel that is duty free.battered said:
In the real world this is the way it happens, provided you mix it with a decent slug of normal diesel then a roadside check won't detect it. I had a friend who ran an old-school Astra diesel on veg oil when it was cheap. He could regularly be seen at Netto buying trolley loads of 5L containers of the stuff.
It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
In the real world....colour etc is just a quick visual indicator for them. If there is any doubt whatsoever they will test the sample taken and you'll be screwed either way.It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
Of course for the most part, chances of a private car getting dipped is fairly slim.
battered said:
In the real world this is the way it happens, provided you mix it with a decent slug of normal diesel then a roadside check won't detect it. I had a friend who ran an old-school Astra diesel on veg oil when it was cheap. He could regularly be seen at Netto buying trolley loads of 5L containers of the stuff.
It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
It worked well until he got greedy and ran it at 100% without any diesel, at which point even a sheddy Astra diesel cried enough.
I know someone that ran an old Peugeot on a 50:50 mix of diesel and veg oil until tinworm and increasing veg oil prices made it uneconomical.
An update on this old thread. After 18 months of running a common rail diesel on central heating oil it proves to be very viable. With a 1:20 mix of engine oil or vegetable cooking oil for lubricity for the pump and injectors the car is still going strong on 28 second heating oil. No drop off in performance or reliability. Fuel consumption is a bit worse (10%) than proper diesel as is power but both barely noticeable when heating oil costs 1/3 what diesel does nowadays. It's accepted that old style diesels can run on most things like waste chip oil but people are scared witless of trying alternative fuels out on modern common rail high pressure diesels. Well they run fine on it. Heating oil has been as low as 30p a litre in the last couple of years and is now back up to 44p but with diesel at 115p or so it's still a massive saving.
Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
Mignon said:
An update on this old thread. After 18 months of running a common rail diesel on central heating oil it proves to be very viable. With a 1:20 mix of engine oil or vegetable cooking oil for lubricity for the pump and injectors the car is still going strong on 28 second heating oil. No drop off in performance or reliability. Fuel consumption is a bit worse (10%) than proper diesel as is power but both barely noticeable when heating oil costs 1/3 what diesel does nowadays. It's accepted that old style diesels can run on most things like waste chip oil but people are scared witless of trying alternative fuels out on modern common rail high pressure diesels. Well they run fine on it. Heating oil has been as low as 30p a litre in the last couple of years and is now back up to 44p but with diesel at 115p or so it's still a massive saving.
Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
Thanks for the update, does your friend use heating oil for his house?Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
Edited by 227bhp on Tuesday 24th October 14:19
Mignon said:
An update on this old thread. After 18 months of running a common rail diesel on central heating oil it proves to be very viable. With a 1:20 mix of engine oil or vegetable cooking oil for lubricity for the pump and injectors the car is still going strong on 28 second heating oil. No drop off in performance or reliability. Fuel consumption is a bit worse (10%) than proper diesel as is power but both barely noticeable when heating oil costs 1/3 what diesel does nowadays. It's accepted that old style diesels can run on most things like waste chip oil but people are scared witless of trying alternative fuels out on modern common rail high pressure diesels. Well they run fine on it. Heating oil has been as low as 30p a litre in the last couple of years and is now back up to 44p but with diesel at 115p or so it's still a massive saving.
Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
On a sample of 1 (reliability wise)Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
Max_Torque said:
Mignon said:
An update on this old thread. After 18 months of running a common rail diesel on central heating oil it proves to be very viable. With a 1:20 mix of engine oil or vegetable cooking oil for lubricity for the pump and injectors the car is still going strong on 28 second heating oil. No drop off in performance or reliability. Fuel consumption is a bit worse (10%) than proper diesel as is power but both barely noticeable when heating oil costs 1/3 what diesel does nowadays. It's accepted that old style diesels can run on most things like waste chip oil but people are scared witless of trying alternative fuels out on modern common rail high pressure diesels. Well they run fine on it. Heating oil has been as low as 30p a litre in the last couple of years and is now back up to 44p but with diesel at 115p or so it's still a massive saving.
Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
On a sample of 1 (reliability wise)Unlike chip oil there is no unusual smell with central heating oil, no abnormal smoke, nothing to alert anyone it's not running pump diesel.
20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
Max_Torque said:
On a sample of 1 (reliability wise)
20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
You do however appear to be risking your mental faculties with either copious quantities of alcohol or some seriously mind altering drugs 20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
Quite how you got from 1 part engine oil : 20 parts heating oil as I mentioned to what appears from your bizarre calculation to be 20 parts diesel : 1 part heating oil we will have to ponder on and you will now have to live with.
Mignon said:
227bhp said:
Thanks for the update, does your friend use heating oil for his house?
He does.There is a guy selling a guide on how to do it on Ebay and waste oil is cheap or free from garages.
I also know someone who has one of those garage waste oil burners (different principle I know, but...) and what he noticed was used power steering oil burned very very cleanly compared to old engine oil (which leaves a bulky sulphurous type waste) so he went to his local rack reconditioners and spoke to them. Not only did they say they had to pay to have it taken away, they also asked (almost begged) him to take as much as he wanted.
You would need suitable equipment of course (after converting your boiler) to transport it as it may be a bit tedious in multiple 25L containers, but it's possible at that. They had it in 1000L bulk containers ready to take away.
Mignon said:
Max_Torque said:
On a sample of 1 (reliability wise)
20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
You do however appear to be risking your mental faculties with either copious quantities of alcohol or some seriously mind altering drugs 20:1 at the prices you mention, means a litre of 'blended' fuel costs 111.6p, for some one doing 12,000 miles a year at say 50mpg that saves you £36.84 a year. Unless you are doing massive miles, and run a shed, i'd not be risking my expensive CR fuel system for under £40 a year.......
Quite how you got from 1 part engine oil : 20 parts heating oil as I mentioned to what appears from your bizarre calculation to be 20 parts diesel : 1 part heating oil we will have to ponder on and you will now have to live with.
227bhp said:
I did wonder. I think with some slight alterations he may be able to run it on used oil.
There is a guy selling a guide on how to do it on Ebay and waste oil is cheap or free from garages.
I also know someone who has one of those garage waste oil burners (different principle I know, but...) and what he noticed was used power steering oil burned very very cleanly compared to old engine oil (which leaves a bulky sulphurous type waste) so he went to his local rack reconditioners and spoke to them. Not only did they say they had to pay to have it taken away, they also asked (almost begged) him to take as much as he wanted.
You would need suitable equipment of course (after converting your boiler) to transport it as it may be a bit tedious in multiple 25L containers, but it's possible at that. They had it in 1000L bulk containers ready to take away.
Auto trans place would have more to get rid of surely?There is a guy selling a guide on how to do it on Ebay and waste oil is cheap or free from garages.
I also know someone who has one of those garage waste oil burners (different principle I know, but...) and what he noticed was used power steering oil burned very very cleanly compared to old engine oil (which leaves a bulky sulphurous type waste) so he went to his local rack reconditioners and spoke to them. Not only did they say they had to pay to have it taken away, they also asked (almost begged) him to take as much as he wanted.
You would need suitable equipment of course (after converting your boiler) to transport it as it may be a bit tedious in multiple 25L containers, but it's possible at that. They had it in 1000L bulk containers ready to take away.
Edited by finlo on Tuesday 24th October 19:23
Waste engine oil is nasty carginogenic stuff and needs a lot of treatment to make it suitable for use in diesel engines. Cleaning and filtering and then diluting the viscosity down with paraffin or petrol. 28 second heating oil (paraffin) is remarkably close to diesel fuel anyway in most respects other than lubricity which is easily corrected and is very cheap just now. 5 years ago it was over 60p a litre but it fell like as stone to 30p and is still only in the low 40s.
Vegetable oil is £1 a litre from the supermarket so with 20L heating oil at 44p plus 1L of veg oil you get a mix cost of 46.7p a litre. Even if you double the dose of veg oil to be ultra safe on the lubricity it's still only 49p a litre for the mix. For an average diesel driver doing 12k miles a year it saves about £800.
The other method for people with oil fired heating is to convert their boiler to use 35 second heating oil which just means changing the fuel spray jet in the burner. That's a 20 minute job for anyone reasonably handy and the jets are a few quid on Ebay. 35 sec oil is the same distillate fraction as diesel itself so with red dye added it's red diesel for tractors, without dye it's road diesel and with yellow dye it's heating oil. However it's a bit more expensive than 28 sec oil and it's no chore to add a bit of veg oil to your heating oil when filling the car's tank. It will however mean your car runs as normal without the small loss of bhp and economy.
Vegetable oil is £1 a litre from the supermarket so with 20L heating oil at 44p plus 1L of veg oil you get a mix cost of 46.7p a litre. Even if you double the dose of veg oil to be ultra safe on the lubricity it's still only 49p a litre for the mix. For an average diesel driver doing 12k miles a year it saves about £800.
The other method for people with oil fired heating is to convert their boiler to use 35 second heating oil which just means changing the fuel spray jet in the burner. That's a 20 minute job for anyone reasonably handy and the jets are a few quid on Ebay. 35 sec oil is the same distillate fraction as diesel itself so with red dye added it's red diesel for tractors, without dye it's road diesel and with yellow dye it's heating oil. However it's a bit more expensive than 28 sec oil and it's no chore to add a bit of veg oil to your heating oil when filling the car's tank. It will however mean your car runs as normal without the small loss of bhp and economy.
finlo said:
227bhp said:
I did wonder. I think with some slight alterations he may be able to run it on used oil.
There is a guy selling a guide on how to do it on Ebay and waste oil is cheap or free from garages.
I also know someone who has one of those garage waste oil burners (different principle I know, but...) and what he noticed was used power steering oil burned very very cleanly compared to old engine oil (which leaves a bulky sulphurous type waste) so he went to his local rack reconditioners and spoke to them. Not only did they say they had to pay to have it taken away, they also asked (almost begged) him to take as much as he wanted.
You would need suitable equipment of course (after converting your boiler) to transport it as it may be a bit tedious in multiple 25L containers, but it's possible at that. They had it in 1000L bulk containers ready to take away.
Auto trans place would have more to get rid of surly?There is a guy selling a guide on how to do it on Ebay and waste oil is cheap or free from garages.
I also know someone who has one of those garage waste oil burners (different principle I know, but...) and what he noticed was used power steering oil burned very very cleanly compared to old engine oil (which leaves a bulky sulphurous type waste) so he went to his local rack reconditioners and spoke to them. Not only did they say they had to pay to have it taken away, they also asked (almost begged) him to take as much as he wanted.
You would need suitable equipment of course (after converting your boiler) to transport it as it may be a bit tedious in multiple 25L containers, but it's possible at that. They had it in 1000L bulk containers ready to take away.
You can buy oil burners for commercial and domestic for burning waste oil.
However...whilst they are available, the legalities are slightly different. And from what I understand actually quiet easily detected if people are looking as it burns much hotter and can be quite apparent at the chimney flue.
As for the CR diesel in heating oil, what sort of miles are you talking ? And it was a Focus I believe ?
I'd wonder if all vehicles would respond the same..I'm sure some could fail quiet soon...but then some engines are just crap anyway lol
However...whilst they are available, the legalities are slightly different. And from what I understand actually quiet easily detected if people are looking as it burns much hotter and can be quite apparent at the chimney flue.
As for the CR diesel in heating oil, what sort of miles are you talking ? And it was a Focus I believe ?
I'd wonder if all vehicles would respond the same..I'm sure some could fail quiet soon...but then some engines are just crap anyway lol
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