Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?

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Discussion

white_goodman

Original Poster:

4,042 posts

190 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Are there any diesel cars that you actually desire to own or is a desirable diesel an oxymoron?

I understand why diesels are so popular i.e. if you're a high mileage user, they tend to offer better fuel economy and tax breaks (I'm sure that many companies may still insist on diesel company cars).

10 years ago, diesel made a lot of sense. Your average NA petrol was pretty gutless, high RFL and poor fuel economy. When I bought my 2008 Polo, the 1.4 TDI over the 1.2 or 1.4 petrol was a no-brainer for me, even though that 3-pot diesel was a pretty agricultural device, it was a lot punchier, fantastic fuel economy and very low RFL. However, recent experience with a couple of hire cars (Golf 1.2 TSI and Focus 1.5 diesel) has shown that small, turbocharged engines can be both punchy and economical (45 mpg average) and much more refined than the average 4-pot diesel. Actually and I say it as a big VW fan, the Focus was probably the nicer car but in spite of its engine rather than because of it. Yes, it was more economical but only 5mpg more so and pretty unrefined. The Ecoboost Focus would have been a much nicer car in my opinion. So yes, if you have to have diesel, you can get some pretty nice cars with 4-pot diesels but they are good cars in spite of rather than because of their engines in my experience.

For me however, the big V6 and V8 diesels do have some appeal. Big range, big torque and more refined. In a less nimble, more luxury-orientated car, they make a lot of sense and in many cases, the petrol alternative for comparable performance may well be in single figures fuel economy-wise.

I would happily drive an Audi A6 Bi-TDI/BMW 535d/640d, Merc E350/CLS350 Bluetec, Jag XF 3.0d etc or the large diesel-powered SUV equivalents (X5, F-Pace, Touareg, XC90, Land Rover etc).

So, is there such a thing as a desirable diesel or is the alternative fuel always the PH choice?


164 coupe

81 posts

122 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Take a look at the latest Alpina D3. Sub 5s 0 - 60, 170+ mph, 50mpg. What's not to like? :cool

benjijames28

1,702 posts

91 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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BMW alpina d3, golf gtd... In fact loads of diesels are desirable, but if you could get the same fuel economy from their petrol equivalent then I would be going for the petrol almost every time.

Ahbefive

11,657 posts

171 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Alfa 156 2.4 JTD 20v.

The 2.5 petrol v6 is probably a more fun toy, but as a cruiser, i'd have that big 5 cylinder diesel every time.

New? I wouldnt know what.. now that pretty much every performance oriented petrol is turbo-ed, you can have massive torque and revs in one package, no need for diesels.

DonkeyApple

54,928 posts

168 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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164 coupe said:
Take a look at the latest Alpina D3. Sub 5s 0 - 60, 170+ mph, 50mpg. What's not to like? :cool
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.

Vitorio

4,296 posts

142 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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DonkeyApple said:
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
I wouldnt know why anyone would pick the D3 over the B3, unless MPG is a serious consideration (in which case you are probably better off with a regular 2.0 from BMW themselves then an Alpina)

alock

4,224 posts

210 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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There are two types of desirable diesels.

Old non-turbobdiesels that will do hundreds of thousands of miles with little maintenance.

The latest batch of 1.6 turbo diesels in small cars that can average 70mpg in day to day driving.

Any attempt at a performance diesel just degrades what they are best at. It's then just a scale as to how many compromises each person is happy to accept.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Ahbefive said:
No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.
This

Alex_225

6,234 posts

200 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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I think they can be desirable but that of course depends on what kind of driving you're doing.

For example I have an E320 CDI which for what I use it for is great, 800 mile+ range, 50mpg and a really comfortable cruiser. That certainly appeals to me and I'd love to replace it in the end with another Merc diesel but ideally a more powerful engine. A newer E350 for example appeals a lot to me as it's slightly quicker, as good on fuel and still quick enough for a daily car. So for mere there is a desire for a big diesel for that aspect of my driving.

I wouldn't be disappointed if a quick diesel was my only car but I prefer the option of diesel for long driving and fast petrol cars for pleasure driving. Two difference 'desires' so to speak. smile

cobra kid

4,907 posts

239 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Petrol v Diesel.

This makes a refreshing change.

Ninja59

3,691 posts

111 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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It really depends on your aims and mileage, I love my 640D (I know some on here would prefer a petrol variant), but when the rest of the range (ignoring the M for a moment) is made up of the 640i and 650i then I think you would be an idiot to choose the 640i (personal viewpoint).

640i - less MPG similar power and they really are a match for one another, whether BMW pegged it back a bit lord knows, but they are a rare beast and really you have to be a dedicated petrol person to not at least try the D variant.

650i - personally I would not touch one with a barge pole the N63 is a troubling beast more so than any N57, considering this really is aimed at the US market overall, but the number of ongoing oil and odd engine issues would put me off. Strangely despite being "related" the S63 seems to have less issues.

Added to this and adding a "touch of reality" for the moment the 640D is still a car that will get to 60 in 5.3/5.4 seconds depending on body style, I know far too many M owners have sold up for having what really amounts to a car wanting to cruise at 100. Brilliant on autobahn's etc., but in the UK with our ever decreasing speed limits it seems a little hmmm...

For me a petrol car with significant power should be used on a track day (to really let it off the leash), for weekend fun or blasting in Europe, but for me the M cars whilst "nice" would you really want to take it on a track day? Unlikely with the M5/6, weekend fun whilst possible the speed limit issue rises again and blasting in Europe a nice touch to do a few times among petrol stops. It really has limited appeal beyond that of some pub bragging rights.

Further down BMW's series in the 3 or 4 for example I would have tougher choice choosing a D, the 40i might just stretch it for me personally (I again would not bother with the M3/4 because again like the M6 it just lacks something). I am probably older than my years, but the older M cars with less power and no turbos in the right environment sound so good (tough choice between the E30 M3's and Evo's, E39 M5, E60 M5, E46 CSL etc.).

I suppose what I really am getting as is I would prefer manufacturers to focus on actual handling, suspension and lightness and not just plonking more power or torque on it, because it is a bit a of a one trick pony and engine power has increased so much that some of the standard BMW range is now as powerful as the earlier M's...not really convinced that is a benefit.


Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 13th October 08:31

Tuvra

7,920 posts

224 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Yes. Next.

Tickle

4,880 posts

203 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Dave Hedgehog said:
Ahbefive said:
No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.
This
+1

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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lots with more than 4 cylinders are desirable 4 or less just practical and dull....

hairyben

8,516 posts

182 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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DonkeyApple said:
164 coupe said:
Take a look at the latest Alpina D3. Sub 5s 0 - 60, 170+ mph, 50mpg. What's not to like? :cool
What's not to like? It's got a Diesel engine. Plenty of BMWs with nice sounding and feeling petrol engines that have equal performance.
D3's one of the least sense making cars of all. Small/sporty enough to enjoy, an expensive enough treat you think the cost savings of having a tracter engine wouldnt factor.

Using diesels to power cars where economy is critical such as mr 50kpa rep or barges where the game is to insulate you from the world so why not benefit from some extra range & economy or SUVs where lets be honest we're way past caring about driving dynamics all have degrees of appreciable make-sense.

But a D3 is a kind of maschistic statement.

aspirated

2,539 posts

145 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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335d xDrive...an Audi V12 TDI cool

toon10

6,140 posts

156 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Tickle said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
Ahbefive said:
No. Zero desire. Hundreds of petrol cars that I would love but not a single diesel.
This
+1
+2

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Bentley-Audi's new 4.0 V8 Tri-turbo TDI engine looks very interesting indeed, so long as they put it in a decent car.


AH33

2,066 posts

134 months

Thursday 13th October 2016
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Even in an £80k car, chug chug chug always sounds bad.