V50 2.0D - Ongoing DPF issue *Help please!*
Discussion
Hi all,
So I own a V50 2.0D on an 08. Great car with one major current issue, the DPF.
I had the "Soot Filter Full" appear so took car to local Volvo Specialist, apparently fault code on VIDA came back as conditions unsuitable for regen, odd since came on when doing 75mph on M1 for over 2 hours. Anyways, replaced DPF with an aftermarket and went away. On drive home car put itself in limp mode with engine service required. Turned out needed a new DPF sensor, sensor fitted and away I go.
Few days later, DPF Soot Filter Full up again. Back to garage and again showing Unsuitable Conditions. Garage recommend just to keep running it and keep an eye on it.
Two weeks later (Numerous Soot Filter Full messages later), driving up M11, DPF light on and stayed on. 20 mins later car in limp mode. Back to Volvo Specialist, new DPF is completely blocked, VIDA showing Unsuitable Conditions code, DPF pressure codes etc. So fitted a genuine Volvo DPF (Wow, they are expensive), away I go again. All pipes checked and perfectly fine.
Well, today after only 189 miles with new Volvo DPF, on the M1 at just under 80, DPF "Soot Filter Full" is back!
I'm ready to scream, I have spent close to £1000 on this and don't seem to be anywhere with it. Garage did say if warning came back, they would be stuck as what to do next.
Anyone have any ideas at all? I'm considering getting rid of DPF altogether, cost another £450, but I'm thinking that's the problem gone and never to return.
Please help....
(I posted in Volvo section but hoping be a DPF genius in here who many have a possible answer)
So I own a V50 2.0D on an 08. Great car with one major current issue, the DPF.
I had the "Soot Filter Full" appear so took car to local Volvo Specialist, apparently fault code on VIDA came back as conditions unsuitable for regen, odd since came on when doing 75mph on M1 for over 2 hours. Anyways, replaced DPF with an aftermarket and went away. On drive home car put itself in limp mode with engine service required. Turned out needed a new DPF sensor, sensor fitted and away I go.
Few days later, DPF Soot Filter Full up again. Back to garage and again showing Unsuitable Conditions. Garage recommend just to keep running it and keep an eye on it.
Two weeks later (Numerous Soot Filter Full messages later), driving up M11, DPF light on and stayed on. 20 mins later car in limp mode. Back to Volvo Specialist, new DPF is completely blocked, VIDA showing Unsuitable Conditions code, DPF pressure codes etc. So fitted a genuine Volvo DPF (Wow, they are expensive), away I go again. All pipes checked and perfectly fine.
Well, today after only 189 miles with new Volvo DPF, on the M1 at just under 80, DPF "Soot Filter Full" is back!
I'm ready to scream, I have spent close to £1000 on this and don't seem to be anywhere with it. Garage did say if warning came back, they would be stuck as what to do next.
Anyone have any ideas at all? I'm considering getting rid of DPF altogether, cost another £450, but I'm thinking that's the problem gone and never to return.
Please help....
(I posted in Volvo section but hoping be a DPF genius in here who many have a possible answer)
£450 to remove it seems a bit much.
And when they removed the old DPF's, were they actually blocked, or are they relying on whatever the ecu is telling them ?
What sort of readings were they getting from the pressure sensor ?
IMO unless it's running like a pile of dung, there is no way it could be blocked up in such a short space of time, all too often idiot garages are too keep just to plug a scanner in and do whatever the ecu tells them, without testing or questioning does it make any sense.
Find somewhere that will remove it for less. It should be even handier now you have an old unit. Just cut it open, remove the internals and weld it back together again so from below it looks as normal.
At some point these will be checked for MOT but realistically it can only be a visual check as as long as the casing is there and looks normal you should be ok.
The some of the cheap remap places should be able to delete any codes.
And when they removed the old DPF's, were they actually blocked, or are they relying on whatever the ecu is telling them ?
What sort of readings were they getting from the pressure sensor ?
IMO unless it's running like a pile of dung, there is no way it could be blocked up in such a short space of time, all too often idiot garages are too keep just to plug a scanner in and do whatever the ecu tells them, without testing or questioning does it make any sense.
Find somewhere that will remove it for less. It should be even handier now you have an old unit. Just cut it open, remove the internals and weld it back together again so from below it looks as normal.
At some point these will be checked for MOT but realistically it can only be a visual check as as long as the casing is there and looks normal you should be ok.
The some of the cheap remap places should be able to delete any codes.
The original DPF that was removed was reading 56 at idle on pressure, told it should regen at about 18. It looked fairly clogged up, but not too bad.
The aftermarket was reading 480 at idle after only been on several weeks (about 1000 miles), that looked completely clogged when removed. When the light first came back on though, the pressure was only 4 at idle, hence why ran it for while longer.
I have only got one quote so far for removal + remap, if Volvo guys can't resolve it, I'll have to look about. Just finding somewhere I trust. I'm just slightly concerned there is a bigger issue and removing the DPF won't be enough, problem may manifest itself elsewhere.
I just can't figure it out, has a new sensor, has a new DPF, didn't realise there was more to this system that could go wrong.
The aftermarket was reading 480 at idle after only been on several weeks (about 1000 miles), that looked completely clogged when removed. When the light first came back on though, the pressure was only 4 at idle, hence why ran it for while longer.
I have only got one quote so far for removal + remap, if Volvo guys can't resolve it, I'll have to look about. Just finding somewhere I trust. I'm just slightly concerned there is a bigger issue and removing the DPF won't be enough, problem may manifest itself elsewhere.
I just can't figure it out, has a new sensor, has a new DPF, didn't realise there was more to this system that could go wrong.
- Edit** Just to add car is running perfectly fine when it's not in limp mode! No excess smoke, no lumpy power delivery, drives great.
Edited by CoreyDog on Sunday 16th October 21:40
The DPF is exactly what it says it is, a filter, you can replace the filter as many times as you like, but until you address the issue that is causing it to prematurely block in the first place, it will keep happening.
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
Megaflow said:
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
This^^^ your either driving using the accelerator like a disco dancer (and trust me, lots of people struggle to drive at a constant throttle opening..) or somethings buggered, leading to excessive soot. I bet injectors are cream crackered......Max_Torque said:
Megaflow said:
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
This^^^ your either driving using the accelerator like a disco dancer (and trust me, lots of people struggle to drive at a constant throttle opening..) or somethings buggered, leading to excessive soot. I bet injectors are cream crackered......Nearly all my mileage is motorway (and I'm fairly lazy) so use cruise most of time, can't see it being me dancing with the throttle.
Do you believe its just Soot building up too quickly as it appeared the car, for some reason, just didn't want to perform a regen? They did attempt a forced regen, pressure before was 18, pressure after was 22!
The error message, always, was unsuitable conditions, but from what I know, conditions were perfect (constant highish speed, car at temperature etc).
CoreyDog said:
Max_Torque said:
Megaflow said:
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
This^^^ your either driving using the accelerator like a disco dancer (and trust me, lots of people struggle to drive at a constant throttle opening..) or somethings buggered, leading to excessive soot. I bet injectors are cream crackered......Nearly all my mileage is motorway (and I'm fairly lazy) so use cruise most of time, can't see it being me dancing with the throttle.
Do you believe its just Soot building up too quickly as it appeared the car, for some reason, just didn't want to perform a regen? They did attempt a forced regen, pressure before was 18, pressure after was 22!
The error message, always, was unsuitable conditions, but from what I know, conditions were perfect (constant highish speed, car at temperature etc).
1) the DPF isn't actually blocked, and the diff pressure sensor is misreading it as blocked
2) the DPF is blocked, and blocks way too quickly between regens
Option 1, is easy to test, just add an external pressure sensor to the DPF pressure tappings to validate the std sensor
Option 2, must be being caused by some other issue, resulting in poor combustion and lots of soot. Normally, this is worn injectors or HP fuel pump. Assuming no other codes are set, the worn injectors are the most likely candidate. Does the car start cleanly from cold without any misfires / roughness etc??
Max_Torque said:
CoreyDog said:
Max_Torque said:
Megaflow said:
My guess would be leaky injector leading to excessive fuel or a dodgy turbo seal.
This^^^ your either driving using the accelerator like a disco dancer (and trust me, lots of people struggle to drive at a constant throttle opening..) or somethings buggered, leading to excessive soot. I bet injectors are cream crackered......Nearly all my mileage is motorway (and I'm fairly lazy) so use cruise most of time, can't see it being me dancing with the throttle.
Do you believe its just Soot building up too quickly as it appeared the car, for some reason, just didn't want to perform a regen? They did attempt a forced regen, pressure before was 18, pressure after was 22!
The error message, always, was unsuitable conditions, but from what I know, conditions were perfect (constant highish speed, car at temperature etc).
1) the DPF isn't actually blocked, and the diff pressure sensor is misreading it as blocked
2) the DPF is blocked, and blocks way too quickly between regens
Option 1, is easy to test, just add an external pressure sensor to the DPF pressure tappings to validate the std sensor
Option 2, must be being caused by some other issue, resulting in poor combustion and lots of soot. Normally, this is worn injectors or HP fuel pump. Assuming no other codes are set, the worn injectors are the most likely candidate. Does the car start cleanly from cold without any misfires / roughness etc??
I'd be surprised if it was the sensor as that was a brand new factory part and when plugged into VIDA, all coming back as it should. No other fault codes shown at all except for the "Unsuitable Conditions to Regen".
I'm hoping it's not injectors, that bill will be very painful if it is.
It would sound like its not doing what it needs to do to regen i.e. not injecting excess fuel and running a high idle
you would think if its a bad turbo seal or poor spray pattern from the injectors it would be trying to regen more frequently, the DPF getting loaded with soot is the symptom not the problem!! maybe a ECU fault, not going into the regen cycle so it just gets blocked ... mine does a regen about every 300/500 miles....oh and just to add my driving is a mix of anything from short runs to long motorway journeys and I leave it running when I'm working to run equipment of an inverter .....Ive never had the warning light , I do change my oil more often as dirty oil isn't good for turbos and gums up the egr and manifold....
you would think if its a bad turbo seal or poor spray pattern from the injectors it would be trying to regen more frequently, the DPF getting loaded with soot is the symptom not the problem!! maybe a ECU fault, not going into the regen cycle so it just gets blocked ... mine does a regen about every 300/500 miles....oh and just to add my driving is a mix of anything from short runs to long motorway journeys and I leave it running when I'm working to run equipment of an inverter .....Ive never had the warning light , I do change my oil more often as dirty oil isn't good for turbos and gums up the egr and manifold....
Edited by powerstroke on Monday 17th October 07:45
powerstroke said:
It would sound like its not doing what it needs to do to regen i.e. not injecting excess fuel and running a high idle
you would think if its a bad turbo seal or poor spray pattern from the injectors it would be trying to regen more frequently, the DPF getting loaded with soot is the symptom not the problem!! maybe a ECU fault, not going into the regen cycle so it just gets blocked ... mine does a regen about every 300/500 miles....oh and just to add my driving is a mix of anything from short runs to long motorway journeys and I leave it running when I'm working to run equipment of an inverter .....Ive never had the warning light , I do change my oil more often as dirty oil isn't good for turbos and gums up the egr and manifold....
Garage seems to agree with you. Had it in this morning and showing the same fault code again about unsuitable conditions. Think it is wiring, software or ECU.you would think if its a bad turbo seal or poor spray pattern from the injectors it would be trying to regen more frequently, the DPF getting loaded with soot is the symptom not the problem!! maybe a ECU fault, not going into the regen cycle so it just gets blocked ... mine does a regen about every 300/500 miles....oh and just to add my driving is a mix of anything from short runs to long motorway journeys and I leave it running when I'm working to run equipment of an inverter .....Ive never had the warning light , I do change my oil more often as dirty oil isn't good for turbos and gums up the egr and manifold....
Edited by powerstroke on Monday 17th October 07:45
I did mention turbo seal and injectors, they said they will look but doubt it as would be more noticeable and the DPF isn't filling excessively fast, it's just not regenerating when it should.
Brought car home as it is needed today but back in tomorrow for... Well couldn't say how long but looks like I'm using wife's Fiesta for foreseeable future with 2 dogs... Oh joy.
Thank you for everyone's advice, really appreciated.
Anyone have any more possibilities please just say and I'll mention it, garage are still grasping at straws.
When I find out what the issue was, I'll let you know on here.
Is it getting up to temp? What's the economy like?
The best people to diagnose it are the ones with the car in front of them, sounds like they'd rather keep guessing and swapping bits than doing any kind of investigation. What are the 'conditions for regen'? Which one/s does it think are not being met? Sit there on the motorway with the laptop on if needed.
The best people to diagnose it are the ones with the car in front of them, sounds like they'd rather keep guessing and swapping bits than doing any kind of investigation. What are the 'conditions for regen'? Which one/s does it think are not being met? Sit there on the motorway with the laptop on if needed.
Edited by buggalugs on Monday 17th October 10:52
I had very similar issues with my 3 litre diesel Audi (2008); First thing replaced was the differential pressure sensor (as it's cheap and easy to do). Helped for a while.
Then more frequent regen cycles that were always being interupted as my commuting is only 6 miles, resulting in limp-home and a few trips to the indi for a forced regen. All would be good for a while.
Replaced the DPF for a good used one (a new one from Audi is around £1700!!!!) - wow; 7 hours labour to replace.
All ok for a while, then the interupted regens again, and limp-home, and finally to the indi for forced regens.
Indi suggested the EGR system (the cooler) could be at fault. Plenty of googling seemed to point to this as a good possiblity. Shelled out for a whole EGR unit (and not just the valve) - and so far, 3 months and quite a few thousnad miles later, all is still good.
So, my suggestion would be to look at the EGR side of things.
Hope this helps.
Then more frequent regen cycles that were always being interupted as my commuting is only 6 miles, resulting in limp-home and a few trips to the indi for a forced regen. All would be good for a while.
Replaced the DPF for a good used one (a new one from Audi is around £1700!!!!) - wow; 7 hours labour to replace.
All ok for a while, then the interupted regens again, and limp-home, and finally to the indi for forced regens.
Indi suggested the EGR system (the cooler) could be at fault. Plenty of googling seemed to point to this as a good possiblity. Shelled out for a whole EGR unit (and not just the valve) - and so far, 3 months and quite a few thousnad miles later, all is still good.
So, my suggestion would be to look at the EGR side of things.
Hope this helps.
I think it's always worth changing the oil when fitting a new DPF. The old oil will be full of diesel from failed regenerations and can be like water in viscosity. It gets past the piston rings etc quickly and clogs up the new filter in record time..
I'd check the oil and if it's black as coal and very watery it will not be helping. I suspect the new filter has blocked too.
I'd check the oil and if it's black as coal and very watery it will not be helping. I suspect the new filter has blocked too.
buggalugs said:
Is it getting up to temp? What's the economy like?
The best people to diagnose it are the ones with the car in front of them, sounds like they'd rather keep guessing and swapping bits than doing any kind of investigation. What are the 'conditions for regen'? Which one/s does it think are not being met? Sit there on the motorway with the laptop on if needed.
Car is at normal running temp, confirmed on VIDA. Economy is exactly where it should be (mid to high 40s).The best people to diagnose it are the ones with the car in front of them, sounds like they'd rather keep guessing and swapping bits than doing any kind of investigation. What are the 'conditions for regen'? Which one/s does it think are not being met? Sit there on the motorway with the laptop on if needed.
Edited by buggalugs on Monday 17th October 10:52
I'm not sure of precise conditions but know they require a constant highish speed (65+) and to be at usual operating temp (80°). Sadly, impossible to find out after the event as the code just says Unsuitable Conditions (Stupid system!). The laptop option has been mentioned, problem is the light can be intermittent, sometimes won't see it for a day or two, other times see it 5 times on a 60 mile journey.
SteveSlowboy said:
I had very similar issues with my 3 litre diesel Audi (2008); First thing replaced was the differential pressure sensor (as it's cheap and easy to do). Helped for a while.
Then more frequent regen cycles that were always being interupted as my commuting is only 6 miles, resulting in limp-home and a few trips to the indi for a forced regen. All would be good for a while.
Replaced the DPF for a good used one (a new one from Audi is around £1700!!!!) - wow; 7 hours labour to replace.
All ok for a while, then the interupted regens again, and limp-home, and finally to the indi for forced regens.
Indi suggested the EGR system (the cooler) could be at fault. Plenty of googling seemed to point to this as a good possiblity. Shelled out for a whole EGR unit (and not just the valve) - and so far, 3 months and quite a few thousnad miles later, all is still good.
So, my suggestion would be to look at the EGR side of things.
Hope this helps.
Thank you! This sounds like a strong possibility, I'll certainly be mentioning that tomorrow. Then more frequent regen cycles that were always being interupted as my commuting is only 6 miles, resulting in limp-home and a few trips to the indi for a forced regen. All would be good for a while.
Replaced the DPF for a good used one (a new one from Audi is around £1700!!!!) - wow; 7 hours labour to replace.
All ok for a while, then the interupted regens again, and limp-home, and finally to the indi for forced regens.
Indi suggested the EGR system (the cooler) could be at fault. Plenty of googling seemed to point to this as a good possiblity. Shelled out for a whole EGR unit (and not just the valve) - and so far, 3 months and quite a few thousnad miles later, all is still good.
So, my suggestion would be to look at the EGR side of things.
Hope this helps.
Garage said they would be doing some research today and tonight in an attempt to narrow it down, when I speak to them I'll see if the EGR is on that list.
Thankfully, since they have done a fair amount of work already they are waving any labour charges, I just have to pay for parts. Think they want it as a fact finding mission as have never had this issue on a Volvo before.
guards red said:
I think it's always worth changing the oil when fitting a new DPF. The old oil will be full of diesel from failed regenerations and can be like water in viscosity. It gets past the piston rings etc quickly and clogs up the new filter in record time..
I'd check the oil and if it's black as coal and very watery it will not be helping. I suspect the new filter has blocked too.
Annoyingly it only had a major service about 7 weeks ago, but I'll certainly be changing the oil once it's all resolved, I do too many miles to risk dodgy oil. Last thing I need is a knackered engine aswell!I'd check the oil and if it's black as coal and very watery it will not be helping. I suspect the new filter has blocked too.
Hi,
I am having similar issues here with a c70. I changed the DPF and the pressure sensor, removed some oil so that is 3/4 full (had over 2l of excess oil). “Engine System Service Required” is back (comes and goes after hard acceleration) after 300-400 miles and the car drives smoothly.
Did you fix the problem in the end? Your answer is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Marius
I am having similar issues here with a c70. I changed the DPF and the pressure sensor, removed some oil so that is 3/4 full (had over 2l of excess oil). “Engine System Service Required” is back (comes and goes after hard acceleration) after 300-400 miles and the car drives smoothly.
Did you fix the problem in the end? Your answer is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Marius
MariusG said:
Hi,
I am having similar issues here with a c70. I changed the DPF and the pressure sensor, removed some oil so that is 3/4 full (had over 2l of excess oil). “Engine System Service Required” is back (comes and goes after hard acceleration) after 300-400 miles and the car drives smoothly.
Did you fix the problem in the end? Your answer is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Marius
That's not excess oil, that's diesel fuel in your oil from the failed regen process. The oil needs to be changed immediately before catastrophic engine failure occurs.I am having similar issues here with a c70. I changed the DPF and the pressure sensor, removed some oil so that is 3/4 full (had over 2l of excess oil). “Engine System Service Required” is back (comes and goes after hard acceleration) after 300-400 miles and the car drives smoothly.
Did you fix the problem in the end? Your answer is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Marius
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