Kids' Karting Konundrum

Kids' Karting Konundrum

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Discussion

13m

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Friday 21st October 2016
quotequote all

One of my sons is interested in and seems to have a bit of an aptitude for karting. I took him to a proper track a few days ago, with an instructor and a cadet race kart. Predictably enough I've been unable to wipe the smile off his face since.

The instructor was extremely good and an excellent advocate for his sport. However, afterwards I was left slightly concerned about whether or not I can let Junior get involved. My concerns are these:

1. The Cadet karts have sealed engines, levelling the playing field somewhat. At 13 years of age where do we go? Is there a meaningful race series for older youths that let them race on equal terms or is it going to just be about how much money we have?

2. Spannering. I come from a motor trade background and have a pathological hatred of spanners and grease. I am not sure I can overcome it sufficiently to be the team mechanic.

3. I'd either need to keep the kart at a track somewhere or buy a van. Either would be a significant overhead.

4. Junior has school and sports commitments and increasingly so. Will karting take over?

5. Am I going to be able to control my spending? I am competitive and I will want him to win.

6. There seems to be a lot of waiting involved. A day's practice and a race day will take up a whole weekend, with only a fraction of it being track time.

I appreciate that most of this comes down to my personal outlook and situation, but has anyone been through this loop and got any advice to offer?

TIA.


tapkaJohnD

1,930 posts

203 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
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https://www.msauk.org/assets/msanews791016.pdf See page 13 BRITISH SCHOOLS KARTING CHAMPIONSHIP 2017 JOIN THE FUN AND REPRESENT YOUR SCHOOL 9or college)

Get the school involved and keep him doing the other things.
Sharing a kart with others keeps cost down, if the school will keep the kart on their premises to allow the students to work on it together, then you don't need a workshop - or dirty hands!

BSKC website: http://www.bskc.co.uk/assets/2017/BSKC2017_rules_a...

I'm not into karts, I just noticed this page in the latest MSA News.
John



Edited by tapkaJohnD on Saturday 22 October 11:25

13m

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
tapkaJohnD said:
https://www.msauk.org/assets/msanews791016.pdf See page 13 BRITISH SCHOOLS KARTING CHAMPIONSHIP 2017 JOIN THE FUN AND REPRESENT YOUR SCHOOL 9or college)

Get the school involved and keep him doing the other things.
Thanks. I will take a look.

Some Gump

12,671 posts

185 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
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Karting is great.

However, it is all consuming. If you want to be competitive, you're talking virtually all of every weekend, plus some evenings prepping the gear.

Well, either that or just pay a team - in which case you'll avoid the grease, but also lose 70% of the benefit you're teaching junior - i.e mechanical skill, responsibility for own kit, how to set up properly, dedication needed to succeed etc.

Either route will cost vastly more than you thought it would!

MG CHRIS

9,077 posts

166 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
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Think of a budget then double it motorsport of any stage is expensive. I'm doing one of the most grass routes events the javelin sprint series this year in my mev exocet kit car with just 6 events this year its cost me with entry fees hotel cost, fuel on track, fuel for the truck, food spares etc over 3k. That's not including the 10k ive got into my car or the 3k truck to pull it or the trailer it sits on.

Maybe wait till hes older and enter after school a stock hatch series a few for under 18 year olds running saxo etc which are pretty cheap to buy.

13m

Original Poster:

26,271 posts

221 months

Saturday 22nd October 2016
quotequote all
I get the impression from a couple of sources that kids karting is a shark infested pool, where teams seek out parents willing to pay handsomely to ensure the success of their child.

joema

2,644 posts

178 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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Mechanically simple and rules mean that engines are to be left alone so no need to be getting dirty.

I think it depends what yours and his goals are. If its to make a career and be a racing driver - how deep are your pockets? Some parents are chucking obscene money at it even before junior formulae. Will his talent shine through? who knows.

If it's just for fun, then it shouldn't cost a fortune as you can get by.

Yazza54

18,464 posts

180 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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I started at the age of 8 in cadets and continued until about 18, was racing 125 ICC gearbox then.

It will take over, you will need to be spending to be competitive, but what a fantastic way to spend time with your son. I am still massively grateful to my parents - I now have more of an appreciation for the time and cash involved and it must have been difficult at times keeping me going.

My father built my engines etc. so that took care of some costs, but travel, entry fees, hotels etc., it all stacks up. It's difficult to embark on something like this without it becoming competitive. When I got older and had other interests (boobies) it kinda got to the point where I could no longer justify allowing them to spend so much money on my racing and the little money I did have was being spent elsewhere - there came the decision that if it was only to continue as a bit of fun without spending a fortune, it really wasn't worth it. I mean who wants to be there just to make the numbers up?

Yazza54

18,464 posts

180 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
13m said:
I get the impression from a couple of sources that kids karting is a shark infested pool, where teams seek out parents willing to pay handsomely to ensure the success of their child.
yes

Don't get me wrong, met some great people doing it... but a lot of s, too.

alfie2244

11,292 posts

187 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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13m said:
I get the impression from a couple of sources that kids karting is a shark infested pool, where teams seek out parents willing to pay handsomely to ensure the success of their child.
Spot on from my experiences sorry to say... and I had interests in my own kart circuit for a while, albeit from a few years back now.

Lots of good memories, cadets & juniors with 2 of my Kids but racing can easily take over your life..... may sound like sour grapes but money talked - we could never compete financially at the very top level despite spending lots and lots, talent does matter obviously but money matters more unfortunately.

brierleys

237 posts

181 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
> 1. The Cadet karts have sealed engines, levelling the playing field somewhat. At 13 years of age where do we go? Is there a meaningful race series for older youths that let them race on equal terms or is it going to just be about how much money we have?

I've heard good things about Junior TKM. TKM has been around for years so I imagine the rules are fairly mature. It's not my area of knowledge but TKM is supposed to be cheaper than Max. Also, I've just been doing Easykart Cadet with my son and they have a Junior class. That's run like a 'one-design' class. Only the supplier can provide parts and service the engine so it's supposed to maintain a level playing field.


> 2. Spannering. I come from a motor trade background and have a pathological hatred of spanners and grease. I am not sure I can overcome it sufficiently to be the team mechanic.

If you're club racing then you can pay to be with a team, although it's very difficult (expensive) if you don't want to be hands on at all. You also need to factor in rebuilding the kart between meetings, not just mechanics while there. If you pay someone to do this it will significantly increase your costs.


> 3. I'd either need to keep the kart at a track somewhere or buy a van. Either would be a significant overhead.

Again, you can get a team to do absolutely everything for you at a cost and this could include transportation of the kart. Even if you end up transporting it yourself, you could opt to rent awning space at the track and they would provide space, air, power, tables etc. Personally, I use an estate car towing a 6x4 trailer with everything in it.


> 4. Junior has school and sports commitments and increasingly so. Will karting take over?

It doesn't have to. I know a lot of kids that are karting every weekend but I don't have the time or money for this so my lad does one championship and we do some practice or other events in between.

> 5. Am I going to be able to control my spending? I am competitive and I will want him to win.

It depends what level you're at, what class you choose and how you go about it. If you do want to get someone to do everything for you then that's where it's going to cost. If you were to do you're local club championship for example, you've got your main costs of entry fees, tyres, consumables, repairs which you'd have to pay if you were running the kart yourself. If you get someone else to do the transport, kart builds, mechanics then you're going to spend easily as much again or more. i.e. 4k for the DIY option, perhaps 10k or more for a full service.

> 6. There seems to be a lot of waiting involved. A day's practice and a race day will take up a whole weekend, with only a fraction of it being track time.

It depends on where you go. Some clubs are very busy and have lots of classes so there's limited track time, others not so much. The Easykart series I mention only has 4 classes so there's plenty of track time over each weekend. There's plenty to do between races, particularly if you do end up being the mechanic.

Yazza54

18,464 posts

180 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
TKM is a very good class to learn race craft, tyres aren't the best, just enough power, lots of focus on carry corner speed, being smooth. Rotax max on the other hand is quite the opposite.. either way it sounds like your lad is too young for those classes just yet.

ribiero

539 posts

165 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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If you've had a life in the motortrade you should be able to spot the sharks easily enough, there's a lot of motorsport that's setup to empty the wallet as fast as possible, the better ones learn your budget and just trickle it dry to keep you in the sport longer :P

You didn't mention where you are based as what's raced at what circuit and how popular it is can differ greatly, but a good kart club can be great for the kid socially.

Spend an evening reading some of the older entries on http://kartingdad.co.uk/ as this will give you an idea of someone who had the same idea as you.

Also go down your local kart club on a race day, ask people questions, they'll be happy to help.




37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
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OK

speaking from experience.

1) first off what track will you be racing at? go and look at what classes race there....it will give you a better idea of what karts you should be getting.

2) usually the jnr classes are cadets, then onto mini max, junior tkm, junior rotax or now x30 I believe. the rotax route is the most expensive...but you may be stuck with it, if its the only class at the circuit. depending on the circuit they run non msa and msa championships.

3) look at whether you want to race at 1 circuit or do a national series. Easykart is a cracking championship (google it) they have a cadet, junior and senior championship and travel all over the country. its a non msa championship so will be cheeper. the tyres, gearing fuel and oil are all set so everyone has the same thing and the engines HAVE to be rebuilt by ACR who run the championship...rebuilds usually cost around £300 and are done every 16 hours or so.

4) I used to race tkm and it cost me circa £3000 for the full season including engine rebuilds etc, and did well enough in regional championships. ive now got an easykart which I just use for track days



37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
just to answer some of your questions directly

1. The Cadet karts have sealed engines, levelling the playing field somewhat. (yes but even if theyre sealed, there are some mega engines out there that don't keep the field that level) At 13 years of age where do we go? (see above there are a variety of jnr championships) Is there a meaningful race series for older youths that let them race on equal terms or is it going to just be about how much money we have? (again if you want to do a national championship id look at easykart...your kid can step up the ladder on a level playing field)

2. Spannering. I come from a motor trade background and have a pathological hatred of spanners and grease. I am not sure I can overcome it sufficiently to be the team mechanic. (karts are relatively simple....again easykart have online guides to make things really easy for you and have a support truck at race meetings)

3. I'd either need to keep the kart at a track somewhere or buy a van. Either would be a significant overhead. (don't be so sure....you can take the engine off easily and stand the kart on its end with or without bumper)

4. Junior has school and sports commitments and increasingly so. Will karting take over? (that depends on how he takes to it!..and depends on how far he wants to go!)

5. Am I going to be able to control my spending? I am competitive and I will want him to win. (depends on how far he wants to go! you can do easykart or tkm on 2-3k a year including everything basically..and spend 40k doing something like super 1 if he wants to head into single seaters)

6. There seems to be a lot of waiting involved. A day's practice and a race day will take up a whole weekend, with only a fraction of it being track time. (yup....usually 7-8 classes a day, so they will need to rotate through the classes on a practice or race day...again look at easykart, with only 3 classes running at a meeting you will get more track time)

sounds like im plugging easykart.....its an often overlooked championship because it runs on a national scale...if you don't want to do a national championship then just normal cadets at your local track is a good option.


37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
don't know if its too late for you but check out this intro day for cadets on Wednesday

http://www.easykart.co.uk/2016/10/20/half-term-eas...

ACR also do storage and kart prep so that may answer one of your questions

heres the 2017 calendar

http://www.easykart.co.uk/easykart-race-calendar-2...

and heres the easykart guide....just to give you an idea of how helpful they can be

http://www.easykart.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/...

also if youre going to buy a kart FFS DONT buy it on ebay....have a look here for the marketplace and forum too http://www.karting.co.uk/

Edited by 37chevy on Monday 24th October 16:54

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
13m said:
I get the impression from a couple of sources that kids karting is a shark infested pool, where teams seek out parents willing to pay handsomely to ensure the success of their child.
Yes it is, just as much, if not more so, than it is for 'real' big boys motorsport.

There is a long line of parents willing to invest £5k, £10k +++ in little Johnny who they knew will be the next Lewis Hamilton after they were able to reach the peddles of the kart. The reality is that the vast majority will never even get to see a podium at an arrive and drive...

The Snake Oil sales people will be more than willing to take every penny you can find and your son with be magically quick in testing, mid pack at the events - oh no sir this will have nothing to do with them giving him a bent kart in the testing to convince the gravy train to keep flowing or any one of one hundred and one dodges.

Others are better placed to advise you on the who to talk to side of things, but be in no doubt you are playing with sharks who have been there seen it and done it all before. There are good guys, make sure you find one of them though.

And never for get, unless you are Lance Stroll there is always someone with a bigger bag of gold to spend.

anonymous-user

53 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Buying the Kart is the cheapest part. frown

Attending events and purchasing everything that is needed during the weekend can be a very expensive affair.

Basically an open wallet for the weekend.

My mate who raced spent just under £800 for a weekend and that was 8 years ago.

To be fair unless you have extremely deep pockets it is not worth doing IMO.

Seeing youngsters attending these events with the parents motor home, full mechanical backing and a spare kart was near impossible to compete with over a year.

Still I wish you every success if you do decide to give it a go.





Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th October 18:40

37chevy

3,280 posts

155 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
Think I need to defend karting somewhat from the posts above. I'm not disputing that people can spend a fortune on racing, but there is still room for lads and dads in club level karting. As I've said above I spend less than 3k a year for 12 meetings, finished rookie of the year in Tkm, won several trophies, all on a 3 year old kart at the time on a 25 kart grid of tkms. So it's more than possible to do it. Spend your money on the right kit, forget about the motorhokes, flashy helmets and tonykart suits...it's not a fashion parade and they won't make you go any faster. At the end of the day the sport is as expensive as you want to make it

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Monday 24th October 2016
quotequote all
37chevy said:
Think I need to defend karting somewhat from the posts above. I'm not disputing that people can spend a fortune on racing, but there is still room for lads and dads in club level karting. As I've said above I spend less than 3k a year for 12 meetings, finished rookie of the year in Tkm, won several trophies, all on a 3 year old kart at the time on a 25 kart grid of tkms. So it's more than possible to do it. Spend your money on the right kit, forget about the motorhokes, flashy helmets and tonykart suits...it's not a fashion parade and they won't make you go any faster. At the end of the day the sport is as expensive as you want to make it
I am not knocking kart in one bit.

What I am doing is making sure op knows what the score is. It is the same in any sport, only the best will reach the top. Yet to be the best in Motorsport you also have to be more than just the fastest driver.

Lad and Dad karting can be great fun, but it is competitive if you wish to do more than just take part. The best way to go faster is to buy speed be that testing, tyres, rebuilds, support team, driver coach, you name it. Will it make a donkey win? Nope, but one or all of the above can be the difference where thousands of a second can be the difference.

Strangely enough there are more very good, well funded, drivers who have started a GP than ones that have hauled a F3 car across Europe by a Transit.