emerald ECU,Trying to start engine.

emerald ECU,Trying to start engine.

Author
Discussion

robin377lotus

Original Poster:

12 posts

100 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
Hi can anyone help me, that has knowledge of the emerald ecu. I have fitted a ford modular 4.6 32v mustang engine, with a xkr supercharger in to my tr7. Emerald have supplied a base map, and i have had it running. But it is difficult to start, almost impossible some times, it tends to try to fire then floods, as the plugs come out wet.Compression is good and have had it on a oscilloscope to prove the wasted spark system is firing at the correct time.I believe it is a f/a rtio problem combined with iac cold start. If anyone has the experience
and time to help, so i can get it going to take it to a rolling road to be mapped. I will pay for the help, i am by landrover solihull.
much appreciated.

the_stoat

504 posts

210 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
I would save the money of paying someone to help and use the cost saving to transport it to a rolling road. Yes, you may find someone to help but I would rather it was set up in a controlled environment with the relevant monitoring equipment in use.

It is no fun rebuilding an engine when the map was off and caused det, ask me how I know.....

spyder dryver

1,329 posts

215 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
What is it with TR7's?
Mick (BoostedLS1) had a twin turbo chargecooled Rover V8 in his then followed it up with an LS motor!
Is it finished yet Mick?

Geoff

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
OP, has the ecu got a cranking map where you can reduce the fuelling for each revolution? Also look for a cold start map and play with settings in there. It may be getting to much fuel.

I love modified TR7's, have you any pics?

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
spyder dryver said:
What is it with TR7's?
Mick (BoostedLS1) had a twin turbo chargecooled Rover V8 in his then followed it up with an LS motor!
Is it finished yet Mick?

Geoff
Hiya Geoff,

Engines built (427 upgradable to TT) and ready for the test rig. Problem is, there's a Chevy 400 in it at the moment that I'm converting to run with a Gems ecu :-) I'll do it to Rovers next.

Check your inbox Geoff :-)

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Wednesday 28th December 19:24

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
robin377lotus said:
Hi can anyone help me, that has knowledge of the emerald ecu. I have fitted a ford modular 4.6 32v mustang engine, with a xkr supercharger in to my tr7. Emerald have supplied a base map, and i have had it running. But it is difficult to start, almost impossible some times, it tends to try to fire then floods, as the plugs come out wet.Compression is good and have had it on a oscilloscope to prove the wasted spark system is firing at the correct time.I believe it is a f/a rtio problem combined with iac cold start. If anyone has the experience
and time to help, so i can get it going to take it to a rolling road to be mapped. I will pay for the help, i am by landrover solihull.
much appreciated.
Simple. If it is too much fuel, then either give it less fuel or more air.

A base map is just that, something to allow the engine to run enough that you can then take it somewhere to be set up correctly.

But you'd need to ensure the base map is even half suitable by working through it and checking all sensor readings are good, and that all numbers do actually make sense for the application.

If it is flooding plugs, best throw the soaked plugs in the bin and start afresh, as often once their soaked, they're fked and you can end up chasing your tail.

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
Like Stevie says, fouled plugs will never work but you can cook them on the gas ring. I've done that before.

Also, will the engine fire up if you switch off the fuel pump during cranking? That's an easy check to do.

Ive

211 posts

168 months

Wednesday 28th December 2016
quotequote all
The Emerald ECU provides both a initial priming squirt and a table with cranking enrichment over revolutions after start..
You find these settings in the injection corrections tab.
As the nengine is cold, I'd start by reducing the cranking enrichtment in the first 3 rows by 50%.

Thing is that in order to program these correctly, you need you idle fueling to be about right for each coolant temperature interval.

The base map is pretty much only good to provide fuel and spark at the right moment, nothing more.
Speed density maps are less critical than alpha-n maps.
Which strategy have you selected?
I have road mapped in both modes with a Emerald K3 controlling a supercharged Rover K.


Try to maintain it running by working with the throttle.
Only after some 50 revolutions it runs with its base fueling plus the coolant enrichment.
From there, it is best to use a wideband lambda sensor to get sensible idle AFRs.
Here you first adjust the fueling at hot idle.
Once this is fine, you adjust coolant temperature enrichtment for each 10C intervall according to the wideband reading.
Just as much % as needed to get 13-14 AFR.

....

If you don't have a wideband sensor installed, best hooked up to the ECU, IMHO you are lost trying this yourself.

GreenV8S

30,150 posts

283 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Does the Emerald provide flood clear on full throttle? If so that ought to be even more effective than pulling the pump fuse.

Ive

211 posts

168 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
It does it indirectly. there is also a anti-flood function for startup enrichtment. It reduces it on consequtive cranking.

For a alpha-n map, you just put zero in the fuel map location for 100% TPS and 0 rpm.
For a speed density map, you put a zero in the 0 rpm and 1000mbar cell.
This does what you describe. Unless you map cold start for the first time, you usually never need it again.

Maybe the OP can mail me his map. I will try some changes to get him going, i.e. Idling.
This will take a few iterations.

For startup fueling, start lean and work your way up. If it is too lean, it will not catch directly and may need throttle support the first minute before we can tacke idle fueling. This needs to be sorted first.

robin377lotus

Original Poster:

12 posts

100 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Thanks for all the advice,under 3000 rpm it pops and bangs, lots of flames(over fueling), over 3000 it comes to life. reduced the fueling using fuel trim (key 3 ). As said it is almost impossible to start,have used around four sets of plugs (including drying them out).No lamber sensor.
So it is beyond me, if anyone can point me in the direction, some times you just need some help. I am at that point.
thanks

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Ah, you're using a Janspeed body kit. Do you know Peter Knott? You're going to need a manly bonnet bulge for that s/c :-)

What axle and drivetrain are you going to use?

tapkaJohnD

1,930 posts

203 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Emerald is Dave Walker, and Dave Walker is his Rolling Road at Hethel near Snetterton.
If you go the RR set up route, why not go to the fount of all Emerald wisdom?
http://www.emeraldm3d.com/about-us

John
(No connection!)

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
It sounds like your simply in over your head.

Get the car onto a trailer and take it somewhere who can do the job correctly. It will save you no end of grief, and of course Mr Walker would be the first port of call.

robin377lotus

Original Poster:

12 posts

100 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Hi, i built the body to look like the ADA engineering/janspeed lemans car from 1979, its all steel. I do not know peter ,who is he? i take it he is into tr s? The gearbox is tremic 3560, axle is sd1 at present , but know it will not last long. I do have a jag power lock to use.
I would take it to dave walker, but i just want it running just to make sure nothing is going to fall off.It is a long way to go if he can not complete the mapping due to minor issues.

Boosted LS1

21,167 posts

259 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Peter owns/owned the Janspeed Le Mans car or used to. He may have sold it to a chap in belgium, Bert Smeets rings a bell.

I'm a fan of the Group 44 bodywork but in the end I just made wider sills and rear arches. Gearbox wise I was going to use a T56 but just don't think it'll be strong enough. It does fit though. They also weigh 9 stone, yikes. I've got a TH400 auto to see if that works. Stockish Tr7 axle but with a quaiffe and 2.84 diff, plus wide wheels. I'be be Carlos Fandango to those who can remember the adverts :-)

I would call Dave walker, he's very helpful and may suggest a way forward.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
As others have said, trying to tune when you're very inexperienced and without a wideband.....is like pissing into the wind.

A good place to start would be reading any operating manual for the ecu.

Another...whilst I dont particularly rate the book that highly....as a total newbie it might hold more value and is clearly aimed at Emerald users, given the author.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Engine-Management-Optimis...

or Dave could maybe recommend someone closer to you to assist, if there isnt someone on the forum nearby.

Mignon

1,018 posts

88 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
robin377lotus said:
Hi can anyone help me, that has knowledge of the emerald ecu. I have fitted a ford modular 4.6 32v mustang engine, with a xkr supercharger in to my tr7. Emerald have supplied a base map, and i have had it running. But it is difficult to start, almost impossible some times, it tends to try to fire then floods, as the plugs come out wet.Compression is good and have had it on a oscilloscope to prove the wasted spark system is firing at the correct time.I believe it is a f/a rtio problem combined with iac cold start. If anyone has the experience
and time to help, so i can get it going to take it to a rolling road to be mapped. I will pay for the help, i am by landrover solihull.
much appreciated.
What exactly do you expect anyone to be able to say about an unknown engine on unknown fuel injectors at an unknown fuel pressure on an unknown map? Much? Anything? Nothing?

robin377lotus

Original Poster:

12 posts

100 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
Bert still owns the car i think, but did have it up for sale. Not sure if it sold, think it was £100k.I have got a 285.1 sd1 but do not think it will take the abuse. I did built a 7 with a tomcat t16 turbo engine, that use to spit out sd1 diffs, and a couple of tvr,lt77 boxes.
Dave has been help full, as he knows what i am trying to do, he has suggested some one closer, but i thought if someone was close to me and had the knowledge it would save me trailering the car, just to get it to run.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
quotequote all
robin377lotus said:
Bert still owns the car i think, but did have it up for sale. Not sure if it sold, think it was £100k.I have got a 285.1 sd1 but do not think it will take the abuse. I did built a 7 with a tomcat t16 turbo engine, that use to spit out sd1 diffs, and a couple of tvr,lt77 boxes.
Dave has been help full, as he knows what i am trying to do, he has suggested some one closer, but i thought if someone was close to me and had the knowledge it would save me trailering the car, just to get it to run.
I'll throw a wild one out there then....why not give the people here some sort of clue as to where on planet earth you are ? Then if someone was near, they might be able to assist.