Car Shudder - Camshaft or Flywheel?
Discussion
Hello guys,
I'm struggling to find an answer to the above question even from the garages. I need some expert advise, please.
Car: Focus 1.8 TDCI 2007 FWD
Problem: There is a vibration/shuddering coming from the engine area throughout the whole car while only on load. This can be noticed at speeds of around 40mph in any gear. It just feels like I'm driving at 40mph on a 30mph road like that nearly stalling feeling. However, If I put my foot down, then at speeds above 70mph it gets minimal.
The problem is exactly same as the one shown in the below Youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0b4pzjrPao
Observation: Car coasts fine across all speeds. Gears can be changed smoothly, no burning smell and no rattling sound. Occasionally, putting in gear 1 can be hard. The car has power and no black smoke from the exhaust. 2 injectors have a leak, seals need doing, however, injector specialist confirmed this will not cause vibration. The car does have a higher biting point and almost all mechanics stalled initially. Upon writing a letter to the previous owner to find out the car history, he confirmed he changed the Clutch+Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) 6 months ago but he doesn't have the receipt.
Work carried out:
Wheel balancing,
Front Driveshafts changed,
Drop link, ball joint and other bearings and suspension examined, no issues,
Recent new engine mount,
Recent new Clutch+DMF,
Recent new Cam belt change
Theories: I have been to 4 MOT garages and 1 independent elderly mechanic in the North East.
1) 3 garages advised 90% this could be due to the flywheel. These guys drove up to 50mph on a motorway in the car. They advised Flywheel is shaking and after certain speeds, it finds the center of gravity and stays stable hence minimal vibration. They have also advised clutch is starting to slip. After advising them about the recent Clutch+DMF change they advised either it could have failed or the previous owner just lied.
2) 1 garage advised it could be Camshaft issue or DMF issue. They have worked on a couple of cars previously which had similar vibration and it had to do with the Camshaft not working properly. Basically to check if all cylinders getting enough power. This is also the same solution provided by the guy in that Youtube video. They haven't ruled out DMF as the cause. This mechanic drove up to 40mph on my car.
3) Independent elderly mechanic said 99% the DMF is the cause and also the clutch is slipping. He listened to the engine sound while on revs and said engine sounds okay. This mechanic drove up to 50mph on a motorway in my car.
When you hear garages saying they are not sure what the problem is, you can understand how frustrating it is. I need a diesel car because I do 60 miles per day. And all this is causing me stress.
I have narrowed it down to either DMF or Camshaft. I have already spent some money on the repairs and both of these seem to be expensive repairs. I don't want to start with something and spend money just to realise that was not the problem at all.
Could some with experience be able to advise please.
Thanks in advance.
I'm struggling to find an answer to the above question even from the garages. I need some expert advise, please.
Car: Focus 1.8 TDCI 2007 FWD
Problem: There is a vibration/shuddering coming from the engine area throughout the whole car while only on load. This can be noticed at speeds of around 40mph in any gear. It just feels like I'm driving at 40mph on a 30mph road like that nearly stalling feeling. However, If I put my foot down, then at speeds above 70mph it gets minimal.
The problem is exactly same as the one shown in the below Youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0b4pzjrPao
Observation: Car coasts fine across all speeds. Gears can be changed smoothly, no burning smell and no rattling sound. Occasionally, putting in gear 1 can be hard. The car has power and no black smoke from the exhaust. 2 injectors have a leak, seals need doing, however, injector specialist confirmed this will not cause vibration. The car does have a higher biting point and almost all mechanics stalled initially. Upon writing a letter to the previous owner to find out the car history, he confirmed he changed the Clutch+Dual Mass Flywheel (DMF) 6 months ago but he doesn't have the receipt.
Work carried out:
Wheel balancing,
Front Driveshafts changed,
Drop link, ball joint and other bearings and suspension examined, no issues,
Recent new engine mount,
Recent new Clutch+DMF,
Recent new Cam belt change
Theories: I have been to 4 MOT garages and 1 independent elderly mechanic in the North East.
1) 3 garages advised 90% this could be due to the flywheel. These guys drove up to 50mph on a motorway in the car. They advised Flywheel is shaking and after certain speeds, it finds the center of gravity and stays stable hence minimal vibration. They have also advised clutch is starting to slip. After advising them about the recent Clutch+DMF change they advised either it could have failed or the previous owner just lied.
2) 1 garage advised it could be Camshaft issue or DMF issue. They have worked on a couple of cars previously which had similar vibration and it had to do with the Camshaft not working properly. Basically to check if all cylinders getting enough power. This is also the same solution provided by the guy in that Youtube video. They haven't ruled out DMF as the cause. This mechanic drove up to 40mph on my car.
3) Independent elderly mechanic said 99% the DMF is the cause and also the clutch is slipping. He listened to the engine sound while on revs and said engine sounds okay. This mechanic drove up to 50mph on a motorway in my car.
When you hear garages saying they are not sure what the problem is, you can understand how frustrating it is. I need a diesel car because I do 60 miles per day. And all this is causing me stress.
I have narrowed it down to either DMF or Camshaft. I have already spent some money on the repairs and both of these seem to be expensive repairs. I don't want to start with something and spend money just to realise that was not the problem at all.
Could some with experience be able to advise please.
Thanks in advance.
Edited by gopikrsna925 on Sunday 19th March 11:41
It is pointless to ask a bunch of strangers to guess at a problem from a vague description, given that multiple experienced mechanics have inspected the vehicle first hand and still not been able to diagnose it. All you'll get from this is speculation, and you should not trust that over what your mechanics have already told you.
As above although i have no idea what the camshaft not working propperly meens 
IME vibration under load is usually an inner CV, but in that case it is worse in higher gears and worse the more throttle you use, IE if you accelorate slowly it's not as bad, having said that if the clutch is slipping i'd suspect the DMF was not changed at the last clutch change (if there was ever actually a clutch change at all?).
About a year ago i had a connect in with the same engine, it was vibrating under load and worse up hills or with weight in the back, 3 new engine mounts sorted it for 6 months then it returned, 2 new driveshafts sorted it fully, the new mounts stopped the engine moving as much and stopped the inner CVs vibrating (less angle change at the inner CVs) but eventually the play became so bad even the new mounts wouldn't stop the vibrations, when checked with thevehical on the ground the inner CVs where solid and showed no play, jack the vehical up and let the susspension droop and there was shatloads of play in them.
I tend to follow the thought that if a vibration happens as a set road speed it's after the clutch, if it happens at a set engine speed it's before the clutch (in terms of how the power travels to the wheels) ?
does the steering feel ok? i have had a diff on the way out feel similar but it used to snatch at the steering when on full lock ?
IME vibration under load is usually an inner CV, but in that case it is worse in higher gears and worse the more throttle you use, IE if you accelorate slowly it's not as bad, having said that if the clutch is slipping i'd suspect the DMF was not changed at the last clutch change (if there was ever actually a clutch change at all?).
About a year ago i had a connect in with the same engine, it was vibrating under load and worse up hills or with weight in the back, 3 new engine mounts sorted it for 6 months then it returned, 2 new driveshafts sorted it fully, the new mounts stopped the engine moving as much and stopped the inner CVs vibrating (less angle change at the inner CVs) but eventually the play became so bad even the new mounts wouldn't stop the vibrations, when checked with thevehical on the ground the inner CVs where solid and showed no play, jack the vehical up and let the susspension droop and there was shatloads of play in them.
I tend to follow the thought that if a vibration happens as a set road speed it's after the clutch, if it happens at a set engine speed it's before the clutch (in terms of how the power travels to the wheels) ?
does the steering feel ok? i have had a diff on the way out feel similar but it used to snatch at the steering when on full lock ?
Thanks for the replies.
This is a new thought I've not considered previously. So, I have gone for a drive and collected some data:
Vibration | RPM | MPH
S0 What said:
I tend to follow the thought that if a vibration happens as a set road speed it's after the clutch, if it happens at a set engine speed it's before the clutch (in terms of how the power travels to the wheels) ?
does the steering feel ok? i have had a diff on the way out feel similar but it used to snatch at the steering when on full lock ?
Thanks for trying to help.does the steering feel ok? i have had a diff on the way out feel similar but it used to snatch at the steering when on full lock ?
This is a new thought I've not considered previously. So, I have gone for a drive and collected some data:
Vibration | RPM | MPH
- 2000 35
- 1750 45
- 1750 55
- 1900 60
- 2250 70
Just a few thoughts here.
A camshaft either works or the engine doesn't. (except for some circumstances that are not what you are describing)
As was stated above. If the vibration is engine speed related it is up to the clutch. Engine/engine mount/flywheel/clutch.
If the vibration is speed related it is after the clutch. Clutch/gearbox/diff/drive shaft/drive shaft bearing/CV joint.
As you seem to have ruled out some of the above, your list is getting smaller.
A camshaft either works or the engine doesn't. (except for some circumstances that are not what you are describing)
As was stated above. If the vibration is engine speed related it is up to the clutch. Engine/engine mount/flywheel/clutch.
If the vibration is speed related it is after the clutch. Clutch/gearbox/diff/drive shaft/drive shaft bearing/CV joint.
As you seem to have ruled out some of the above, your list is getting smaller.
Hi bud, I'm having very similar problems but with a mk2.5 2.0 petrol. Around a year and a half ago I had a q drive drive shaft fitted . Found out after there as useful as a chocolate tea pot. Anyway the inner boot rubber has split and it's causing the same issues your having. I also changed suspension struts as they were worn. It made no different however when I changed the drop links the difference in the cars handling and smoothness is amazing. What I'm saying is it could be more than one thing causing your problems
I wouldn't take a previous owners word on work carried out without proof for its easy to lie about a non visible part being replaced. it could of had a second hand flywheel fitted to get it going well enough to get it sold or a solid flywheel conversion or I've seen dual mass flywheels welded which will eventually rattle gearbox bearings. get it up on a lift drive it on the lift to the range the noise is apparent any good mechanic will have a stethoscope to find the area needing attention. I would be leaning towards and goosed flywheel or differential
Bdevo3 said:
I wouldn't take a previous owners word on work carried out without proof for its easy to lie about a non visible part being replaced. it could of had a second hand flywheel fitted to get it going well enough to get it sold or a solid flywheel conversion or I've seen dual mass flywheels welded which will eventually rattle gearbox bearings. get it up on a lift drive it on the lift to the range the noise is apparent any good mechanic will have a stethoscope to find the area needing attention. I would be leaning towards and goosed flywheel or differential
+1, or it's had a cheap one fittedCheers guys 
I'm getting Clutch+DMF checked this weekend and if found faulty going to replace them straight away.
Garage guy had checked the drop links and suspension and found they're okay. He did mention wishbone bushes may need changing in future however it may not be the cause of vibration on load. If clutch+DMF looks okay then I have to get all these rechecked again from a different mechanic.
I'm getting Clutch+DMF checked this weekend and if found faulty going to replace them straight away. Garage guy had checked the drop links and suspension and found they're okay. He did mention wishbone bushes may need changing in future however it may not be the cause of vibration on load. If clutch+DMF looks okay then I have to get all these rechecked again from a different mechanic.
Hello guys,
I have got both clutch+dmf replaced today with a full Sachs kit. Clutch has become smooother however, the vibration/shudder still present on load around 2000rpm irrespective of the gear.
It is very upsetting to find out the issue is not clutch+dmf related when many mechanics/friends suggested that is the problem.
I have got both clutch+dmf replaced today with a full Sachs kit. Clutch has become smooother however, the vibration/shudder still present on load around 2000rpm irrespective of the gear.
It is very upsetting to find out the issue is not clutch+dmf related when many mechanics/friends suggested that is the problem.
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