What Engine for 500BHP

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

What sort of mixtures and timing is it running at those temps ?

.

Looking at the log for the same time as above - Lambda is 0.81/0.82 & timing around 12 degrees

[stevieturbo]

I'd maybe like a little richer, but boost isnt high so all sounds good. Probably wouldnt change EGT's much anyway

[turbonutter]

Any thoughts on Nozzle location ??



I was thinking of just after the Charge cooler, to get the best mixing before the engine, but then there is a chance of a small amount of th einjected liquid escaping from the dump valve when it opens. Would this be a problem if using 50/50 mixture?

The alternate would be between the Dump Valve and Air temp sensor, but that would be quite close to the temperature sensor....

[stevieturbo]

after the charge cooler sounds fine.

Or if going Aquamist and FAV, you could opt for 6 small nozzles, 1 in each runner.

Or even without the FAV, they do small nozzles with built in check valves so they can be installed in the intake.

that would ensure equal flow to each cylinder

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

after the charge cooler sounds fine.

Or if going Aquamist and FAV, you could opt for 6 small nozzles, 1 in each runner.

Or even without the FAV, they do small nozzles with built in check valves so they can be installed in the intake.

that would ensure equal flow to each cylinder

So no worries about a bit ow water/Meth coming out of the Dump valve then. I assume a 50/50 mix isnt flamable anyway?

I did think of putting one nozzle in each runner, but that is a lot more work also as i was planning to use the Air temperature sensor as a fail safe, or try it as a control parameter & that wouldnt work if i have the nozzles on the runners.

System wise I have gone with a Devils Own pump, nozzle & fittings for stainless hoses & an Aquamist FAV for control. The tank is also an Aquamist one, just because it fits better in my boot...

[stevieturbo]

turbonutter said:

So no worries about a bit ow water/Meth coming out of the Dump valve then. I assume a 50/50 mix isnt flamable anyway?

I did think of putting one nozzle in each runner, but that is a lot more work also as i was planning to use the Air temperature sensor as a fail safe, or try it as a control parameter & that wouldnt work if i have the nozzles on the runners.

System wise I have gone with a Devils Own pump, nozzle & fittings for stainless hoses & an Aquamist FAV for control. The tank is also an Aquamist one, just because it fits better in my boot...

You can spray onto the sensor and use it as a failsafe...but remember, the temp sensors are very very slow for that sort of thing. The flow meter etc would be a better option.

That said, the modern stuff is very reliable these days anyway, ad if the ecu has good knock and wideband control...you should be well covered. And if you're only using a small amount and not tuning aggressively for more power....there really isnt a lot to worry about anyway

And most of them use an Aquatec DD5800 pump, not sure if any still use the Shurflo.

And I had my BOV close to the nozzles for years even with 100% meth. Some probably comes out, but it evaporates or disperses quickly...it would never be anywhere that would pose a risk. With 50/50 there really would be zero risk.

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

You can spray onto the sensor and use it as a failsafe...but remember, the temp sensors are very very slow for that sort of thing. The flow meter etc would be a better option.

That said, the modern stuff is very reliable these days anyway, ad if the ecu has good knock and wideband control...you should be well covered. And if you're only using a small amount and not tuning aggressively for more power....there really isnt a lot to worry about anyway

And most of them use an Aquatec DD5800 pump, not sure if any still use the Shurflo.

And I had my BOV close to the nozzles for years even with 100% meth. Some probably comes out, but it evaporates or disperses quickly...it would never be anywhere that would pose a risk. With 50/50 there really would be zero risk.

I wasnt planning to spray directly on the sensor, just somewhere before the sensor.. yes they are slow, but it would pick up a partially blocked nozzle. I need to look into adding a flow sensor, as I am not sure if i have any available inputs.

The Knock control I have seems to work ok, so that would be the true safety. With the air temperature, I was going to use it to inject more as the temps rise, so Map vs air temp for the PWM table.

If you had no issues injecting before the BOV, then I think I will try there first, as it gives more time for mixing...

[stevieturbo]

And again....dont misunderstand that the bulk of what water injection does happens in the combustion chamber. Not the charge cooling although that can be a welcome benefit too.

But when charge temps arent high to start with...in that respect the WI would be doing nothing, which is very far from the truth.

So mixing....hard to say if that's the right word. Clearly 1 inj per cylinder will give the best distribution, no different than you wouldnt normally inject fuel way down the boost pipe.

You may not be able to see what the WI is doing in terms of charge temps spraying near a sensor...but the WI will absolutely be doing it's job in the chamber.

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

And again....dont misunderstand that the bulk of what water injection does happens in the combustion chamber. Not the charge cooling although that can be a welcome benefit too.

But when charge temps arent high to start with...in that respect the WI would be doing nothing, which is very far from the truth.

So mixing....hard to say if that's the right word. Clearly 1 inj per cylinder will give the best distribution, no different than you wouldnt normally inject fuel way down the boost pipe.

You may not be able to see what the WI is doing in terms of charge temps spraying near a sensor...but the WI will absolutely be doing it's job in the chamber.

Yes a bit of missunderstanding on my part.... I was assuming most of the benefit was in teh charge cooling, not in the actual combustion process - we learn something every day

[227bhp]

turbonutter said:

Any thoughts on Nozzle location ??

Your CC could do with twisting round a bit so the hoses are pointing upright, potential for air pockets there even if you've twisted it after it's been bled. Hope it's flowing countercurrent!

[stevieturbo]

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/forumdi...

[turbonutter]

227bhp said:

turbonutter said:

Any thoughts on Nozzle location ??

Your CC could do with twisting round a bit so the hoses are pointing upright, potential for air pockets there even if you've twisted it after it's been bled. Hope it's flowing countercurrent!

Agreed, it would be better with the hoses vertical, but thats as close to vertical as i can get with th eengin ecover closed. Yes its countercurrent.............

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/forum2/vbulletin/forumdi...

Thanks - found some usefull info there...

[turbonutter]

Just looking at the install for the WI system... the Devils own Stuff came with a non return valve to install before the nozzle, as I will be using an aquamist FAV, I assume that I dont need to use the non return valve??

[stevieturbo]

Generally check valves are only needed if the nozzles are in the intake...ie to prevent vacuum sucking in water.

Or some have a check valve is the water reservoir etc is higher than the nozzle...so gravity would allow fluid to syphon in.

Either way, fitment of the FAV or solenoid covers both of these issues as the solenoid will close to prevent fluid moving.

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

Generally check valves are only needed if the nozzles are in the intake...ie to prevent vacuum sucking in water.

Or some have a check valve is the water reservoir etc is higher than the nozzle...so gravity would allow fluid to syphon in.

Either way, fitment of the FAV or solenoid covers both of these issues as the solenoid will close to prevent fluid moving.

That is what I thought, but worth checking👍

[turbonutter]

stevieturbo said:

Generally check valves are only needed if the nozzles are in the intake...ie to prevent vacuum sucking in water.

Or some have a check valve is the water reservoir etc is higher than the nozzle...so gravity would allow fluid to syphon in.

Either way, fitment of the FAV or solenoid covers both of these issues as the solenoid will close to prevent fluid moving.

That is what I thought, but worth checking👍

[turbonutter]

SO I am now back from work, its been a long trip, suffice to say the chinese ships we had built took a while to get finished.....

Anyway I am just in the process of hooking up the wiring for my Water Injection. The question I have is regarding the Aquamist Fast Acting Solenoid valve that I am using to control the Water Injection Flow. This will be controlled from my ECU, using a Low side PWM Signal. I was just about to run a +12V to the coil, and noticed it is marked 6Vdc.
My question is how to best connect the coil, I have either an unregulated 12V or a regulated +5V to choose from.
Should I use the 12V, but limit the PWM signal to a maximum of 50%, or should i use +5V. My thinking is if I use +5V the valve wont open fully ?

Cheers

[stevieturbo]

turbonutter said:

SO I am now back from work, its been a long trip, suffice to say the chinese ships we had built took a while to get finished.....

Anyway I am just in the process of hooking up the wiring for my Water Injection. The question I have is regarding the Aquamist Fast Acting Solenoid valve that I am using to control the Water Injection Flow. This will be controlled from my ECU, using a Low side PWM Signal. I was just about to run a +12V to the coil, and noticed it is marked 6Vdc.
My question is how to best connect the coil, I have either an unregulated 12V or a regulated +5V to choose from.
Should I use the 12V, but limit the PWM signal to a maximum of 50%, or should i use +5V. My thinking is if I use +5V the valve wont open fully ?

Cheers

I would be amazed if they genuinely expect it to be supplied with 6v...unless it has been supplied in error. Speak to Richard.

DO NOT use 5v from an ecu. Those are for sensors only, very low current. You could damage the supply by connecting such a load to it.

12v ign based supply and the ecu trigger to the other side.

Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 27th September 14:50

[turbonutter]

I checked with Richard & he confirmed to use 12V PWM - the 6V marking, is only relevant to an on off usage..

Quote
"6V is for steady DC on/off operation.

12V with a PWM signal is ideal."