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Evoluzione

1,615 posts

123 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
A Delta Evo box could do it I guess, but a four wheel drive Stratos would just be wrong.
It's the same 'box with the same problems.

ivanhoew

396 posts

121 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
stevieturbo said:
ivanhoew said:
how about ,as a bit of a digressive thinking thingy ,a escort cosworth box .
An Escos is an inline box with a separate transfer box and is a ste gearbox to start with.

Perhaps the most unsuitable option possible.
A Delta Evo box could do it I guess, but a four wheel drive Stratos would just be wrong.
ah good point , i think i was really thinking of the escort front wd box .... i had a vague recollection that they were supposed to be quite strong ,especially the diesel ones .


or maybe a derivative of the ford box with a quaife gearset ...


http://www.zetecinside.com/xr2/gearbox2.shtml



Edited by ivanhoew on Saturday 16th June 11:35

Liquid Knight

11,691 posts

63 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
ivanhoew said:
Liquid Knight said:
stevieturbo said:
ivanhoew said:
how about ,as a bit of a digressive thinking thingy ,a escort cosworth box .
An Escos is an inline box with a separate transfer box and is a ste gearbox to start with.

Perhaps the most unsuitable option possible.
A Delta Evo box could do it I guess, but a four wheel drive Stratos would just be wrong.
ah good point , i think i was really thinking of the escort fwd box i had a vague recollection that they were supposed to be quite strong ,especially the diesel ones .
The Escort RS2000 four wheel drive was the transverse set up. Fitted to the Mondeo Si Ghia 2.0 4x4 as well so the correct number of boxes could be made for homogulation purposes. The plan was for there to have been an Evo transverse version of the Escort Cosworth as a last hurah. Sadly the weight of the Mondeo was too much for them and even though they were fitted with the 130bhp Zetec there are only a dozen or so left on the road. The Escort version were limited to 150bhp (standard RS2000 engine) fared better but are either mothballed classic territory or scrap at the moment. The RS2000 engine wasn't the most tune able and those who tried soon found the gearboxes weren't up to the task.

None of this matters as four a mid mounted four wheel drive Lancia would have to be the Delta S4 and we all know how they turned out. frown

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
Evoluzione said:
Sorry, I'm a bit late on this one, but it looks like you've spotted the problem with these 'boxes, it's not so much the gears and shafts that are weak, but the casings. The holes holding the bearings on the two main shafts go oval allowing them to spread. The gear teeth lose their mesh and ping off pretty quick.
I've had spectacle plates produced for this problem and an upper plate too to avoid your next issue - the diff and casing breaking whilst being pushed out of the way by the torque.

A pic of the spectacle plate being made alongside the 'box casing being machined at the same time:





You'll just keep on destroying gears until you strengthen the casings.

What clutch are you using btw?
That Spectacle plate looks like something I need.. I have a plate for the diff end of the casing, already installed..



I assume the spectacle plate fits in the casing between 4th & 5th gear??

Do you know where I can get a spectacle plate made? I dont suppose you had any extra ones made??

Clutch is a Tilton 7-1/4" ceremetalic twin plate with Grey Springs - Good for 600lb/ft I think.



Edited by turbonutter on Saturday 16th June 17:09

OlberJ

13,494 posts

113 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
Toyota E153 is a very tough transverse box if you're still stuck (mk2 mr2 turbo).

Not sure if it would be feasible with starter position etc.
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turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
OlberJ said:
Toyota E153 is a very tough transverse box if you're still stuck (mk2 mr2 turbo).

Not sure if it would be feasible with starter position etc.
Just had a quick look at the MR2 box & the starter is in the totally wrong place (front of engine, not rear)but as I would need an adapter plate, it could be an option...


Edited by turbonutter on Saturday 16th June 18:20

Evoluzione

1,615 posts

123 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th June 2012 quote quote all
turbonutter said:
That Spectacle plate looks like something I need.. I have a plate for the diff end of the casing, already installed..



I assume the spectacle plate fits in the casing between 4th & 5th gear??

Do you know where I can get a spectacle plate made? I dont suppose you had any extra ones made??

Clutch is a Tilton 7-1/4" ceremetalic twin plate with Grey Springs - Good for 600lb/ft I think.



Edited by turbonutter on Saturday 16th June 17:09
That looks pretty much like one of Deltaparts' plates?
I can make a spectacle plate, but I would ask whoever does your machining if they can do the work on the box to make it fit - we can't do it that way hence my pic. It's to do with reference points on the CNC machine, we put the two side by side, machine one, then transfer the program over to the other so it fits. The job is time consuming enough as it is even for a CNC pro, but to try and do it like you are imagining would probably drive someone to suicide.
When its machined and dropped into the casing it holds the bearings on each shaft in a steel figure of eight (or spectacles) so they can't move.

Does the clutch drive ok around town?

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Sunday 17th June 2012 quote quote all
Yep its a delta parts plate, well spotted.

Looking again at your picture of the machining, the spectacle is being made to fit in the bell housing casing - did you also do something similar to locate the bearings in the center gear casing at the other end of the shaft?

Clutch is not to bad around town, but I wouldnt want to be stuck in a long traffic que..

Evoluzione

1,615 posts

123 months

[news] 
Sunday 17th June 2012 quote quote all
Well it would be like not being able to recognise your own children. hehe
Haven't done the top one yet, but it won't be a problem to make one and then later will come some external strengthening to the rear diff cover as that can split too under duress. I think that's as far as you can go - well, until we discover something else breaking!

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Tuesday 19th June 2012 quote quote all
Another option is the Bacci RC111 6 speed sequential, they have said they will do me a special strong version for a decent price, just not sure about going for a sequential dog box on the road.... It will be Ok when driving "properly" but I guess it will be a pain in trafic, but then again so is the clutch, so nothing new?

Done 200 miles now, and so far so good, just trying to get some data logged to see what is causing a strange missfire sometimes. but playing around it recorded a 3.8 0-60 time (on low boost 0.9 bar). Dont want to try too much as I have a photo shoot tomorrow for PPC, but after that I will try the 0-100 timer & try to get my mate to get some video, aparently watching it do the 0-60 makes the hairs stand up on the back of your neck;)

Gompo

2,985 posts

138 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all


I was pleased to spot you on the road again, probably 18? years since I saw you in your old one.

Looking great, of course!

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Wednesday 20th June 2012 quote quote all
Well spotted! Not that its difficult to spot. That was on the way to a photo shoot for PPC, look for the sept issue I think.

Liquid Knight

11,691 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 21st June 2012 quote quote all
turbonutter said:
Well spotted! Not that its difficult to spot. That was on the way to a photo shoot for PPC, look for the sept issue I think.
The first "P" is "Practical" so you must have had a cup holder in there somewhere. hehe

It's the only motoring magazine I have ever subscribed to and have done since it first came out. I hope my Panda will be good enough to feature one day.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Thursday 21st June 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
The first "P" is "Practical" so you must have had a cup holder in there somewhere. hehe

It's the only motoring magazine I have ever subscribed to and have done since it first came out. I hope my Panda will be good enough to feature one day.
No Cup Holder and not a lot of trim - they even took out the tom tom for the interior shots smile

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Just had confirmation that my car will feature in the September issue of Practical Performance Car, So a while to wait yet....

Liquid Knight

11,691 posts

63 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Issue 102? I was hoping a fire breathing 500+ (proven) bhp Stratos would be in the 100th issue in July. They must have something amazing planned. bounce

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
turbonutter said:
Yep its a delta parts plate, well spotted.

Looking again at your picture of the machining, the spectacle is being made to fit in the bell housing casing - did you also do something similar to locate the bearings in the center gear casing at the other end of the shaft?

Clutch is not to bad around town, but I wouldnt want to be stuck in a long traffic que..
Just been in some traffic & clutch is a pain!

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Monday 25th June 2012 quote quote all
Liquid Knight said:
Issue 102? I was hoping a fire breathing 500+ (proven) bhp Stratos would be in the 100th issue in July. They must have something amazing planned. bounce
August is the 100th issue is it not (my June issue is 98) I just missed out on the deadline for August, or they found something better.
So Issue 101 for my car....

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
Still away at work, so still investigating gearbox options....
As mentioned before Bacci will make a box that will handle the power & they have experience fitting th ebox to alfa v6 engines, also Saenz have said they can supply a suitable 6 speed box & they also have experience with the alfa V6 fitment. Then there is Maktrak who have a suitable box, their box will require an adaptor plate to mate it to the engine, but they are currently fitting one in a stratos replica to an alfa v6.

I have also just come across DJM motorsport who are very local to me & looking at their site then they may also be able to offer a solution....

Any comments/ recommendations or otherwise re the 4 options i have so far would be much apreciated.....
That is BACCI, SAENZ, MAKTRAK and DJM Motorsport.

The car is now advertised as being in sept. PPC


stevieturbo

9,368 posts

127 months

[news] 
Thursday 2nd August 2012 quote quote all
Given the vehicles DJM has built and worked on/fabricated parts for, his credentials are second to none.
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