What Engine for 500BHP

What Engine for 500BHP

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Discussion

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Saturday 29th September 2012
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OlberJ said:
Silly question time. With the exhaust pipe running where it does, where are you planning to put the starter motor?
Not really a silly question. I plan to run the Alfa starter, in its normal position. I have a brise starter which basically only needs clearance for the gear and so will require a small cut into the bell housing, but nothing substantial...


Liquid Knight

15,754 posts

182 months

Saturday 29th September 2012
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OlberJ said:
Oh and btw, I'd hang into that template when it's made, I'm pretty sure you'll be able to sell a few.
The Camry V6 is a straight fit to the MR2 Rev box and apparently (although I've never seen it) the LS400 V8 fits the MR2 box as well provided you use a Supra or MR2 flywheel and starter motor.


OlberJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Saturday 29th September 2012
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Oh i'm ultra well versed on the Camry V6'd Mr2's, i've built and owned quite a few over the years.

The Alfa V6 though, if you're using the Mr2 box would only require an engine side mount and new downpipes, the same as the toyo engines need to fit.

You get more power and a better sound from the Alfa, this side of a 2grfe. Only issue might be wiring it up but fairly sure we could make it work without the need for a standalone.

The toyo based Fezza market would lap such a conversion up.

LS400 does go in but requires too much work. Better to use the Audi V8 for just such an application.

The V6's though, without needing firewalls etc to be chopped up are quite the swap.

Definitely worth keeping that template when it's made!

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Thursday 4th October 2012
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The PPC article is now available on my website.

http://www.turbonutter.net/ppc-article

Not much progress with the car, as the engine and box are away for a couple of weeks having the adapter plate made up.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Gearbox plate is still in production, or should i say in the pipeline, should be ready next week...

Meanwhile with a spare box i got from ebay, I have been progressing with the new engine mounts.





The were easy, remaining is the one on the rear of the engine that also has the intermediate shaft bearing bolted to it...



Need to wait for some material before i can get on with this one, but that gives me tine to work out how I am going to do it...

Once its made that will be a total of 5 mounting points and a steady on the top, so the engine shouldn't move too much.

OlberJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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Took me a while to work out the middle picture but that's the end mount i see.

I'd be a little worries with having that solid mounted as when the engine bucks under acceleration and even worse when lifting off it will put a lot of stress on there, unless i'm looking at it wrong?

The engine pivots on the 4 rubber mounts as normal.

Are you going solid mounting to frame all round, no rubber at all?

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Monday 8th October 2012
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The end mount off of the gearbox (middle photo above) is not solid, there is a spax bb18 rubber bush in there.

The gearbox top mount also goes down to the origional gearbox mounting point.



All the other mounting points (diff, front of engine, top engine steady and the rear engine when I get it done) are all the same Spax BB18 rubber bushes (like this one)



The only difference is the one on the gearbox is bolted front to back and all the others are bolted right to left. I did it that way as it was easier - do you think they should all be the same (right to left) its only tacked to the chassis, so could be changed reasonably easily...

Edited by turbonutter on Tuesday 9th October 00:06

OlberJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Ah, fair enough, at least there's some rubber in there. Was that what you used before? How was it for vibrations, especially at idle?

Normally the mounts are quite large rubber with holes in to give quite a bit of flex but we polly bush the torque mounts on a 200/200 V6 as otherwise it causes so much jolting and in some cases, snapped mounting bases.

Very hard polyurethane, almost solid filled mounts just give too much cabin vibration but it depends what you are used to i suppose.

I'd be worried about where the stress is being transferred to if the mounts are too solid.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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The Bushes are the same as what the engine was mounted on before. Yes there is some vibration, but its not an issue for me.

Initially there was just one mount on the end of the gearbox, and two at the front and rear of the engine, with a steady bar from the top of the engine, which allowed some movement at the gearbox end. Then I added a second gearbox mount of the alfa diff. So this setup with the MR2 Box has a more substantial mount off the diff casing, and the top mount, with a leg going fwds to the origional chassis pick up and the bush on the top.

To Be honest I doubt the one on the top that we are discussing is even needed. I put it there just because it was handy. Think I will leave it where it is as turning it 90 Degree is an issue & keep an eye on it.

OlberJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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No worries, if it works, don't mess with it smile I'd keep weekly checks on the mounts and surrounding areas though, just to be sure. Especially when you're putting down 500bhp!


turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Tuesday 9th October 2012
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Putting that bush anywhere else to get it the other way round would mess with the turbo, so it wont happen. I ran a 450 BHP motor on 3 of the spax bushes + a top steady. This will have 5 bushes + the steady, so loading on each bush should be less...... even with 500BHP.

I think its best to just keep checking, I am pretty sure that it will be strong enough, but there is really only one way to find outsmile


turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Friday 12th October 2012
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Been a slow week this week, as I have been waiting for materials..

But in the end they arrived & I now have the gear lever connected to the Gearbox and all gears are selectable easily. Which is a good sign especially as the the shift cable is attatched to the gearbox lever only with a cable tie!

The shift cable inner is slightly to long, but there is plenty of thread, so its just a matter of chopping 10mm off each end then the lever will be more upright..








turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
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Well The adapter plate design is done and the drawing at the water jet cutters for cutting the profile - Meanwhile the Gearbox is away being overhauled and time for more delays, as one of the parts that needs replacing isnt available until the end of next week.......

Some small progress, all the engine mounts on the chassis are now fully welded and painted, the hole where the old gear linkage passed through the bulkhead is blanked off, along with the tunnel, which i omitted to do before, the oil cooler seals have been renewed(one was weeping slightly), the oil pressure and temp sensors are mounted and gearbox oil cooler hoses made.....



[url]|http://thumbsnap.com/7cGAmp59[/url

Also I have made up the mounting plate for the release bearing - which took a while as it is machined in one piece from 4" round bar = lots of swarf








I have also put the gearbox in the car and measured up for the driveshafts N/S needs shortening 25mm and the offside needs a 6mm spacer. The spacer is easy to make, but I dont think a hacksaw and mig welder is good enough for shortening a shaft, so that is away to be cut and friction welded back together at the right length......]

OlberJ

14,101 posts

232 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
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Neil, while it's in my head, which of the E153 mounting holes did you use on the adapter plate?

Thinking about mating this to an S54 (mk2 NA) and dependant on the holes used, it would work for that too.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
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I dont remember which holes we decided to use in the end..... I was down at the machine shop and we picked the best holes for bolts and picked one dowel hole and a threaded hole to have a dowel screwed into...
I will of course know when i get the plate back.

There were some issues fitting the plate between the E153 and the Alfa engine.
1) we had to loose one of the bolts that holds the blank cover on diff housing, but that shouldnt be an issue as its only a blank..
2) the starter had to be rotated on its axis about 10 degrees, but thats no big issue, just some material to grind off the spacer plate.
3) The dowels in the alfa block are hollow and have bolts through them. The problem is when you bore the plate to fit the dowels, there is no material left for threads, and using a bolt, the head fouls the gearbox flange. The best solution is to machine some material from the gearbox to allow a bolt to be used....

I will post some photos etc when i get the parts back.....

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Friday 2nd November 2012
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Some Delays again with the gearbox, still waiting for one part from toyota..... but I now have the adapter plate, shown here bolted to the engine.



and here on the gearbox



This is a rev 2 box, not the rev3 box i am using, so the lower two holes dont line up with anything. When I get the REv 3 box back, it will need machining where the starter motor gear is and to clear the two button head bolts that bolt through the engine dowels.



This shows which holes are for what.
Red - bolts to engine
Blue - engine dowels
Yellow - gearbox bolts
Green - gearbox dowels
Purple - starter bolts and dowels.

Plate bolts to engine first and then the box is bolted to the plate...

Liquid Knight

15,754 posts

182 months

Saturday 3rd November 2012
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You sir are a git. You've taken something relatively complicated and made it look straight forward. wink

Good work. smile

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Saturday 3rd November 2012
quotequote all
The Plate does look simple dosent it, The guys that did the work are the ones to take the credit though, as they did all of the measuring & machining smile

I did the initial fit and alignment as you have seen, and due to the driveshaft position, the box dosent really have any options as to where it will fit. I have layed the temporary plates that I used for the alignment over the apropriate holes in th eplate and it looks like i was pretty damn close to start with, but now it will be perfect.

There is a small amount of machining to do to the box to clear the button head blots that bolt the plate to the engine through the dowels & to clear the starter gear, but no point in doing that to this box. I also need to machine the blank cover on the diff to clear the engine, but otherwise its pretty simple.

I was also involved with the design of the plate and there were a few head scratching questions along the way, but its turned out pretty goodsmilesmile

GTRene

16,369 posts

223 months

Saturday 3rd November 2012
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indeed looks very good, looks like a complicated item to make.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

496 posts

207 months

Saturday 3rd November 2012
quotequote all
GTRene said:
indeed looks very good, looks like a complicated item to make.
A good few hours work has gone into it!

The complicated bit now is I need 1 Socket Countersunk M12x1.25 bolt 30mm long.........

All the rest of the bolts are easy to find....