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mave

2,303 posts

95 months

[news] 
Monday 11th December 2006 quote quote all
turbonutter said:
I think the Lexus v8 will be a bit big to fit transverse in the back of a stratos, as v6's are a tight fit.

I think a Blown Alfa V6 would be my choice at the moment.

Any one have any experience with having the alfa v6 fitted with a blower? Any recomendations of who to contact about this.

Thanks

Neil

Well, there was a turbocharged 2.0 V6 tax break special, so some of the manifolding etc may already exist.

eliot

5,749 posts

134 months

[news] 
Monday 11th December 2006 quote quote all
mitsubishi 3000 gto?

trooperiziz

8,299 posts

132 months

[news] 
Tuesday 12th December 2006 quote quote all
turbonutter said:
trooperiziz said:
What about the NSX V6 if you want lightweight and reliable.


Now the NSX V6 is a possibility, about 270BHP stock I believe and sound good + the advantage of already being a mid engine setup. Are the engines and boxes reasonably easy to get hold of??

Cheers

Neil


276bhp is the official figure, but the tested engines have come out at around 300bhp.

www.nsxprime.com is the place to go to ask if there are any engines about, there may not have been many NSXs sold in the UK (around 800) but in the states and worldwide there are around 8-10 thousand out there, so sourcing an engine shouldn't be too difficult. It just depends on how much you want to spend.

If you get one in the states, you could always do this
www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine%5Fperformance%5Fproducts/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/custom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/FI%5Fcustom%5Fengine%5Fprogram/
to it before getting it shipped over here

Marquis_Rex

7,377 posts

119 months

[news] 
Tuesday 12th December 2006 quote quote all
I was involved in the design and development of the Jaguar V6 (and No it's quite different from the Ford V6 rolleyes

It mounts tranversely in the X type.
It keeps to a notional V6 brief to keep the 60 degree V6 signature noise that the Stratos would have had (if such things concern you), it's a very light weight engine (175 kgs in standard form with inlet manifold and other gubbins- so this could be shaved- lighter than the Ford Duratec V6).
It has a stout forged crankshaft and big 35mm inlet valves with solid tappets. Engine flows very well with big ports- ideal for boosting.

Boosted ones were played around with during the development of the X type "R" but they were supercharged.
500 Bhp is possible via Turbo charging but it will cost you ALOT more than 5 grand

eliot

5,749 posts

134 months

[news] 
Tuesday 12th December 2006 quote quote all
What about Cadillac northstar - transverse v8?
Goes in the front of a golf:
www.cwstuning.com/gallery/coupe-degolf
Only came as an auto, but it looks like it has the same bellhousing pattern as other GM front wheel drive setups.

or turbo sbc on a transverse autobox:
http://fieroaddiction.com/SBCTa.html

I would use an LS1, not an old iron sbc and use a 4t80e as it would be stronger - aftermarket programmable controlers for the autoboxes are available. Depends if the thought of an autobox floats your boat..

Edited by eliot on Tuesday 12th December 10:15
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Boosted LS1

13,555 posts

140 months

[news] 
Tuesday 12th December 2006 quote quote all
eliot said:
What about Cadillac northstar - transverse v8?
Goes in the front of a golf:
www.cwstuning.com/gallery/coupe-degolf
Only came as an auto, but it looks like it has the same bellhousing pattern as other GM front wheel drive setups.


Wow, that looks like a decent conversion. Wonder how it drives?

Boosted.

eliot

5,749 posts

134 months

[news] 
Tuesday 12th December 2006 quote quote all
Or in the back of a MR2
www.v8mr2.com/

RR-eng

2,522 posts

113 months

[news] 
Wednesday 13th December 2006 quote quote all
The Fiat 2.0l 5 cylinder 20VT motor has a proven upgrade path to beyond 500bhp. Also for the Stratos application the fact that the engine is mounted in the Fiat Coupe transversely means that you can drop the entire drive train in with minimal modification.

Plus using the Fiat engine adds a certain bit of authenticity.

chuntington101

4,538 posts

116 months

[news] 
Thursday 14th December 2006 quote quote all
might have been asked before, but do you really NEED 500bhp??????

i ask cos if you speack to the likes of stig in the Ultima section less than 500bhp can still be very entertaining in a light weight car!

he had a 600+bhp GTR but has sold that and now has a 400+bhp Can-Am and says its prosiable better!!

now if all the above doesn't apply to you then ok lets look at this logicaly. 500bhp is quiet a big number, esp. if you want it to be useable and reliable! track work or any kind of racing will make this figgure harder on the engine than for road use. as will VERY sticky tires.

now 500bhp isn't all that hard! why not go for a 1.3 ltr 'busa engine tuned by holeshot??? its very light, makes bags of power, comes with a 6 speed sequential box, etc, etc. down sides? has to be run on race gas, wont last teriabley long, will need regular rebuilds and will cost quiet a bit! lol

now even with a 2.0 ltr its not going to be a walk in the park! uyour still pushing around 250bhp per ltr, which is wuiet a lot! but if you really want to go for a 4 pot then i would look for a nice Evo 4G63 unit. with alot of cash you can get a very useable 500bhp out of these things. id go 2.4ltr stroker (RC Developments does a nice one i think) and a GT35R turbo. you will need high lift cams with pullies, a very good intercooler/chargcooler system, standalone ECU (motec is a good one), a Very good tuner (Norris Design, RC, etc,), plus a hole heap of other bits and bobs to make the think work!

thanks Chris.

PS could you not settle with 300-350bhp from a Honda Ka20 or a Audi 1.8t??? reliable and proven in mid engined cars (see Lotus elise transplants).

eliot

5,749 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 14th December 2006 quote quote all
chuntington101 said:
might have been asked before, but do you really NEED 500bhp??????

i ask cos if you speack to the likes of stig in the Ultima section less than 500bhp can still be very entertaining in a light weight car!

he had a 600+bhp GTR but has sold that and now has a 400+bhp Can-Am and says its prosiable better!!

now if all the above doesn't apply to you then ok lets look at this logicaly. 500bhp is quiet a big number, esp. if you want it to be useable and reliable! track work or any kind of racing will make this figgure harder on the engine than for road use. as will VERY sticky tires.

now 500bhp isn't all that hard! why not go for a 1.3 ltr 'busa engine tuned by holeshot??? its very light, makes bags of power, comes with a 6 speed sequential box, etc, etc. down sides? has to be run on race gas, wont last teriabley long, will need regular rebuilds and will cost quiet a bit! lol

now even with a 2.0 ltr its not going to be a walk in the park! uyour still pushing around 250bhp per ltr, which is wuiet a lot! but if you really want to go for a 4 pot then i would look for a nice Evo 4G63 unit. with alot of cash you can get a very useable 500bhp out of these things. id go 2.4ltr stroker (RC Developments does a nice one i think) and a GT35R turbo. you will need high lift cams with pullies, a very good intercooler/chargcooler system, standalone ECU (motec is a good one), a Very good tuner (Norris Design, RC, etc,), plus a hole heap of other bits and bobs to make the think work!

thanks Chris.

PS could you not settle with 300-350bhp from a Honda Ka20 or a Audi 1.8t??? reliable and proven in mid engined cars (see Lotus elise transplants).

I'm not conviced at-all that a highly boosted 4 banger is the way to go. Ive followed (well nearly crashed into the back off) an FQ340 whilst he waited for his turbo to spool up after a junction.

grahambell

2,695 posts

155 months

[news] 
Thursday 14th December 2006 quote quote all
turbonutter said:

Any one have any experience with having the alfa v6 fitted with a blower? Any recomendations of who to contact about this.

Thanks

Neil


Napiersport who now make the Corse Stratos replica have one with a twin turbo Alfa V6. However, it's also mounted inline and mated to a Porsche transaxle.

Have you even considered the gearbox? 500bhp is a lot of power and few production gearboxes will survive it for long.

And as has already been asked, do you really even need 500bhp? Especially in such a short car?

As Tony Blair will tell you - power is nothing without control.

Anyway, you can contact Napiersport via www.superstratos.com

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Thursday 14th December 2006 quote quote all
grahambell said:
N
Napiersport who now make the Corse Stratos replica have one with a twin turbo Alfa V6. However, it's also mounted inline and mated to a Porsche transaxle.

Have you even considered the gearbox? 500bhp is a lot of power and few production gearboxes will survive it for long.

And as has already been asked, do you really even need 500bhp? Especially in such a short car?

As Tony Blair will tell you - power is nothing without control.

Anyway, you can contact Napiersport via www.superstratos.com


I Had a previous Stratos replica with 400-450 BHP also a twin turbo Alfa V6, which is where Napiersport got the idea from, Mine had an alfa 164 gearbox, with a modded bearing, and lasted a reasonable length of time. As it is a road car you dont get to use all the power all the time.

As to do I need 500BHP?? Well I had 400++ before, so thought 500 would be nice to have. I am still in the planning stage, and looking to explore any intresting avenues that arise.

The Napiersport Corse is a nice car, and being the track version a longer wheel base, but probably not the most practical for the road!

Still Thinking of 500BHP transverse, but probably will end up with less.....Hope not though!!

chuntington101

4,538 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 15th December 2006 quote quote all
eliot, i was only saying if i had to go with a four pot!

also OEM turbo cars can allways be made to spoll faster. stock jurnal bearing turbos kill spool on small engines turbo cars. ball bearing is a much better solution. even the US V8 guys are getting into it now!

and as you will need a standalone ECU, why not run anti-lag??? hehe

Also to the original question, how about an Alfa V6 with a Rotex,Vortec,ProCharger type supercharger on there?? these will be much kinder to the transmition and should be easier to hadle than a turbos on/off boost delivery???

thanks Chris.

turbonutter

Original Poster:

386 posts

88 months

[news] 
Saturday 16th December 2006 quote quote all
chuntington101 said:


also OEM turbo cars can allways be made to spoll faster. stock jurnal bearing turbos kill spool on small engines turbo cars. ball bearing is a much better solution. even the US V8 guys are getting into it now!

and as you will need a standalone ECU, why not run anti-lag??? hehe

Also to the original question, how about an Alfa V6 with a Rotex,Vortec,ProCharger type supercharger on there?? these will be much kinder to the transmition and should be easier to hadle than a turbos on/off boost delivery???

thanks Chris.


I think thats the way to go, probably the rotex charger, should make it easier to drive than the twin turbo engine i had before!

But The thought of turbo and anti lag apeals to my wicked side

chuntington101

4,538 posts

116 months

[news] 
Monday 18th December 2006 quote quote all
welll why not go for a compound boosted engine??? a guy with a fiesta has done a mid mount (used to br in the front) with his twin charged 1.9 (might be 2.1 now) CVH. he ran a small ish roots blower and then a T34 and ran N2O ontop of that! made great power for the engine.

would be even better with the alfa engine!

OR you could go for a V6 built for boost, then fit magnacharger, Kene Bell, or Whipple blower on top!!! that would give you a V6 that feels like a big V8.

thanks Chris

pentoman

4,242 posts

143 months

[news] 
Monday 18th December 2006 quote quote all
What about the Mercedes AMG supercharged 3.2 V6 from the SLK32 and C32? Assuming it is alloy (better check that one!) then it has some advantages over the other engines suggested - it's a single cam 3-valve design so the basic block should be lighter and more compact than 4-valve V6s, it's supercharged so no turbo lag, and the supercharger mounts on top in-between the cylinder banks which may be better for packaging - no trying to fit the turbos and exhausts in that small space around the sides of a V6. Does mean extra weight is higher up though. It's 354 bhp standard but I believe it's pretty tuneable and bound to be pretty solid as well.

Marquis_Rex

7,377 posts

119 months

[news] 
Monday 18th December 2006 quote quote all
The Merc 3 valver single cam engine is a compact light weight engine [it DOES have aluminium block]. In Naturally aspirated form comparing like for like it weighs the same as the exceptionally light BMW 328i M50 engine (about 160 Kgs- the Jag 175kgs I quoted earlier is not a good comparision as it includes anciliaries this comparision doesn't).
They come out equal, because the BMW has a heavy straight six crankshaft (23 to 25 kgs) but the Merc has more valve gear, sprockets etc etc and a balancer shaft. The Merc has a capacity advantage but the Bimmer has VCT. Unfortunately the Bimmer is NOT compact for this kind of thing being a straight six...

GreenV8S

23,471 posts

164 months

[news] 
Monday 18th December 2006 quote quote all
chuntington101 said:
welll why not go for a compound boosted engine??? a guy with a fiesta has done a mid mount (used to br in the front) with his twin charged 1.9 (might be 2.1 now) CVH. he ran a small ish roots blower and then a T34 and ran N2O ontop of that! made great power for the engine.


If you want to go bonkers, have a look at Nick Mann's hyperbar engine. As far as I can remember, it had a jet engine with the compressed air routed either to the engine intake and the engine exhaust feeding the exhaust turbine, so it acted like a conventional turbo. When the throttle was closed, the excess charge was routed through a burner and back to the exhaust turbine so it ran like a jet engine. Massive boost, zero lag, just a huge amount of engineering and skill to get it working.

chuntington101

4,538 posts

116 months

[news] 
Tuesday 19th December 2006 quote quote all
GreenV8S said:
chuntington101 said:
welll why not go for a compound boosted engine??? a guy with a fiesta has done a mid mount (used to br in the front) with his twin charged 1.9 (might be 2.1 now) CVH. he ran a small ish roots blower and then a T34 and ran N2O ontop of that! made great power for the engine.


If you want to go bonkers, have a look at Nick Mann's hyperbar engine. As far as I can remember, it had a jet engine with the compressed air routed either to the engine intake and the engine exhaust feeding the exhaust turbine, so it acted like a conventional turbo. When the throttle was closed, the excess charge was routed through a burner and back to the exhaust turbine so it ran like a jet engine. Massive boost, zero lag, just a huge amount of engineering and skill to get it working.


i have thought about stuff like that! cant imagine the fuel consumption being to good though!

but to be honnest i dont think compound boost is that bonkers! crafty (off here) posted some great compound boost OZ manarnos on lS1tech the other day. they ran a centrifugal blower into a roots blower. so at low RPM the roots is doing all the work and at higher rpm the cent. SC is tacking over. and there is no need to worry about over boosting as the centrifugal supercharger is the overalll limiting factor. i think the 5.7 ls1 was making about 620bhp at the rear wheals!

also if the like of VW can get it to sell then i think it has great chance! imagine if they ditched the 3.2ltr V6 for a 2.0ltr twincharged engine?

thanks Chris.

PS. have you considered the VW VR6 and the newer 3.2 V6?? they are very tunable and you can get turbo and supercharger kits to make BIG power.

pdd144c

205 posts

103 months

[news] 
Tuesday 19th December 2006 quote quote all
eliot said:
[quote=chuntington101]
I'm not conviced at-all that a highly boosted 4 banger is the way to go. Ive followed (well nearly crashed into the back off) an FQ340 whilst he waited for his turbo to spool up after a junction.


Rubbish. Any 4 cyclinder I've turbo'd has not had this problem, if you use the right sized turbo and its mapped correctly it will be fine.
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