What Engine for 500BHP

[stevieturbo]

turbonutter said:

I checked with Richard & he confirmed to use 12V PWM - the 6V marking, is only relevant to an on off usage..

Quote
"6V is for steady DC on/off operation.

12V with a PWM signal is ideal."

Nothing on a car these days operates at 6v, it's maybe a solenoid for some other application he's using ?

[Ive]

As I also promote on the aquarist forum, go direct port with 6 nozzles right before the fuel injectors. Place them in the straight section on the side of the fuel injectors, e.g. top side. The spray does not like to take turns.
Most manifolds are not designed for wet flow. Most water will get unevenly distributed as streams of water running along the walls after taking tight turns.
The methanol content is masking some of this issue as the methanol still works well as a fluid stream.
I have found needing less flow with direct port for the same effect compared to a central injection location before the plenum.

Edited by Ive on Tuesday 27th September 21:14

[thecarbuilder246]

Hi
This is for turbonutter.
I came across your Mr2 gearbox upgrade while searching the web.
This is something I'm trying to do but using a cosworth V6 instead of the alfa engine in a 246 Dino rep.
I've done something similar to you and mounted the gearbox on the crank case and everything seems fine.
So what I'm after is someone to make an adaptor plate to mount the two together. Ideally I'd like it in 12mjm
if possible.
Ian

[Liquid Knight]

If you haven't got the engine yet the MR2 gearbox can take a Camry V6 a lot easier. Same bell housing pattern and mounts already exist to fit the engine to the Mk2 MR2

There was a Camry V6 powered MR2 in the 2010 PPC £999 Challenge.

Plenty of information out there if you Google "Camry V6 MR2"

Edited by Liquid Knight on Sunday 7th May 21:44

[turbonutter]

thecarbuilder246 said:

Hi
This is for turbonutter.
I came across your Mr2 gearbox upgrade while searching the web.
This is something I'm trying to do but using a cosworth V6 instead of the alfa engine in a 246 Dino rep.
I've done something similar to you and mounted the gearbox on the crank case and everything seems fine.
So what I'm after is someone to make an adaptor plate to mount the two together. Ideally I'd like it in 12mjm
if possible.
Ian

Ford to Alfa Adapter plate is not something that I have or can get... not sure why you would put a ford engine in an italian car either, but if thats what you want, then you need to get a local engineering company to make up the adapter.
I used DJM Motorsport for mine, as they are local to me. http://www.djm-motorsport.co.uk/Design_Transmissio... but its not cheap for a one off.... Is there not a ford gearbox that will fit?

[Liquid Knight]

The Duratec V6 from a Mondeo ST220 was good enough for Noble.

Transverse and cable selectors.

The Cosworth V6 is a lump in comparison.

[turbonutter]

There is a guy putting the st220 V6 in his stratos as we speak - not my choice, but it fits really well..

[Liquid Knight]

Unlike the Cologne with sticky heads the Duratec is all Aluminium. I would be looking at Ecoboost V6's (M6007-35T) if I had to have a Ford. Some of those are making heavy numbers with the right turbo.

[thecarbuilder246]

Hi

I already have the cosworth v6 fitted (brand new crate engine) and I have everything to run the engine/ecu/exhaust etc. The gearbox is the problem.
The company that did the conversion in the original kit used a ford escort gearbox from either a rs200 or a rs turbo.
The box uses a rod gear linkage that worked in reverse and back to front (1st is where 5th was etc) which to be honest at best is crap. Also a few guys using them have suffered with stripped gears from the torque of the engine when used in a mid engined configuration.
I have a ford adaptor plate and have made a perspex plate that fits the Mr2 gearbox. I've tried this on the v6 and it'll work, What I need is a workshop with cnc facilities to combine the two to give me the finished adaptor plate.

ian

[GreenV8S]

thecarbuilder246 said:

What I need is a workshop with cnc facilities to combine the two to give me the finished adaptor plate.

Milner Conversions in Matlock used to do that type of thing. I think they sold that side of the business off to Conversion & Precision but I haven't dealt with them.

[Liquid Knight]

What clutch and flywheel are you using?

The Cosworth V6 predates MaF (Mazda and Ford) in the UK but there is a chance an American front wheel drive Ford, Mercury or Mazda box might fit.

Didn't the Essex, Cologne and Cosworth V6 have the same pattern as the 302 V8?

[thecarbuilder246]

I'm going to use a uprated Mr2 clutch kit. I will get a ford to toyota flywheel made (poss TTV racing) that uses a stock fit clutch.
That way I can used the toyota starter too.

[thecarbuilder246]

turbonutter said:

There is a guy putting the st220 V6 in his stratos as we speak - not my choice, but it fits really well..

Hi
I see from your website post that you used an hydraulic clutch release bearing. As I'm stuck for space I intend to do the same.
Can I ask what bearing you used-tilton? You also made up a spacer. Was this to mount the bearing or so you could used the tilton clutch?
ian

[thecarbuilder246]

Liquid Knight said:

What clutch and flywheel are you using?

The Cosworth V6 predates MaF (Mazda and Ford) in the UK but there is a chance an American front wheel drive Ford, Mercury or Mazda box might fit.

Didn't the Essex, Cologne and Cosworth V6 have the same pattern as the 302 V8?

Not sure. I don't think the essex was the same as the cologne anyway.

[turbonutter]

thecarbuilder246 said:

Hi
I see from your website post that you used an hydraulic clutch release bearing. As I'm stuck for space I intend to do the same.
Can I ask what bearing you used-tilton? You also made up a spacer. Was this to mount the bearing or so you could used the tilton clutch?
ian

I only used a hydraulic release bearing as the exhaust was in the way of the standard toyota clutch slave cylinder.

I used a Tilton 800 Series - 44mm contact 1.6" Tall Part# 61-8002.

They come in various heights - I used this one as I already had it fitted to my alfa gearbox.

The Spacer/mounting block, was to be able to mount the release bearing to the gearbox.

[turbonutter]

OK its been a while since I updated the thread, for various reasons I didnt manage to get the WI mapped until yesterday. The installation was completed a while ago, but with work etc I never made it to the dyno... One of the hiccups was a fault with the ECU, the H-Bridge chip for the DBW failed so the throttle would only move from rest to full open & not from rest to close... Not happy about that, as the ECU has had very little use...

Anyway Installed the nozzle as shown below after the dump valve and before the air temp sensor




I did some flow testing by controlling the solenoid opening & found I only got about 1/3 of the range using the solenoid as i did controlling the pump speed to give a pressure range of 60-200psi. so I decided to control the flow with the Pump and just use the solenoid to start the injection (the pump starting slightly before, maybe its not necessary like that, but it was wired up...

The plan for the rolling road was to map the boost control from 2000-3500 rpm, as by having no control there, due to installing a softer spring, I was loosing boost and power. With the softer spring, the 3 port boost solenoid was already maxed out to get 1.1 bar boost, so I planned to change for a 4 port valve, so we could up the boost once the water injection was running. However we found that the 4 port valve was too sensitive around the point where we needed the most control (possibly because the valve was around 50% open?) so we had to go back to the 3 port valve. I could have got more boost by changing the spring, but I didnt want to loose the flexibility by also increasing the minimum boost... So decided to see what happened with the boost available...

We started the WI at 0.4 bar, increasing the flow as boost and rpm rises & it allowed about 10 degrees of ignition to be added & increased the wheel power from 403 to 452, so over 500 at the fly wheel again - which was all I was looking for at the moment.




https://www.facebook.com/neil.simons.319/videos/12...

Just need to add in a flow sensor to give me some extra safety rather than relying on the knock control. I will use the flow switch to switch ign & fuel maps if the flow fails...

Interestingly we now have less boost, I think due to the extra gas volume increasing the Exhaust pressure? so once I add a second boost solenoid we should be able to get the boost back again... but I will be leaving it like this for a while...

Figures below are before and after - Torque at the top.. its a hub dyno so wheel figures..

[stevieturbo]

You can easily do what you want with a 3 port solenoid, but the 4 port should have worked too.

Some might depend how much air you allow to vent from it though via the 4th port.

And a lot also depends on the ability of the controller itself ( ie ecu and tuner setting it up )

But you're asking for a very small range of boost, there shouldnt be any real difficulty with that via a few control methods

One solenoid per chamber is another option...but it really shouldnt be necessary.

[turbonutter]

The three port works fine, but with the spring I am running with 100% duty I could only get about 210kpa, with the WI flowing this drops to 190kpa. to get more I would need a bigger spring, which I dont want to do.

The 4 port we tried just vents to atmosphere, with no restriction.. rather than mess more with the 4 port we decided to go with a second 3 port to control the signal to the bottom of the WG, starting to bleed this one when the 3 port is nearly maxed out - I have the 3 port valve & a spare PWM channel, so its just a matter of fitting and wiring it....

[stevieturbo]

turbonutter said:

The three port works fine, but with the spring I am running with 100% duty I could only get about 210kpa, with the WI flowing this drops to 190kpa. to get more I would need a bigger spring, which I dont want to do.

The 4 port we tried just vents to atmosphere, with no restriction.. rather than mess more with the 4 port we decided to go with a second 3 port to control the signal to the bottom of the WG, starting to bleed this one when the 3 port is nearly maxed out - I have the 3 port valve & a spare PWM channel, so its just a matter of fitting and wiring it....

It's all down to plumbing.

Use the 3 port like a 4 port, but drill a small bleed hole for either the line to the top chamber, or in the chamber itself ( by small I mean like 0.5-0.7mm )
Then you can either fully blow it open, or fully blow it closed ( aside from that small leak...but that small leak makes it easy to control boost )

But yes 1 solenoid per chamber is another option and gives some more flexibility.

[anonymous-user]

Considering your running an electronic throttle, you should be able to control plenum pressure (and hence flywheel) torque to whatever you want. Control to pre-throttle, not plenum pressure, and drop the excess pressure across the throttle. It's then a balance of economy vs response.