Supercharged 2.5 944 project.
Discussion
Ah, errr too late! It already has cup 1 wheels, new logo interior, 968 rear 4 pots front boxster calipers and corresponding front and rear discs, koni shocks all round, lower+stiffer front springs, 968 rear beam plus other upgrades. May as well finish the job eh!
Ref the head I meant instead of the standard 2.5 n/a head.
Ref the head I meant instead of the standard 2.5 n/a head.
Edited by ihatesissycars on Thursday 22 November 23:17
This triggered my brain as well. My 944 2.5 Lux needs a new engine, so have just sourced an S2 lump from Simon at ESS. Oh & I won a Merc Kompressor off of E Bay a few weeks ago so I'll be putting the two together in my garage & installing early into 08! The S2 lump will get freshened up & the compression lowered.
Why bother? why not, mine has S2 corners, had serious money thrown at the sills & I intend keeping it so don't give a monkeys as to what it'll be worth at the end.
Why bother? why not, mine has S2 corners, had serious money thrown at the sills & I intend keeping it so don't give a monkeys as to what it'll be worth at the end.
tr7v8 said:
wildoliver said:
On an s2/968 engine? Neither of your heads will fit that engine.
Not true apparently the factory have done it & several people afterwards, I believe Jon Mitchell does it with the big bore Turbo's.You dont need to lower the comp to supercharge unless you are going for high boost. You will run into problems with the limitations of the standard MAF at higher than 7psi and will also need to get someone like Wayne Schofield to map the ECU for the SC. The point of using the NA 2.7 8v head is to match the waterways of the 3.0 block to an 8v head that allows you to bolt on the 951 intake and exhaust manifolds. This is done to save money of fab work and also to save replacing all the exhaust valves in the 16v head to deal with the extra heat. I cant understand why anyone would supercharge a 2.5 engine as you are limiting youself from the start. Still it will be a good learning experience. Also above a certain boost level the radiator will struggle to keep temps down and you will also need to look at decent intercooling especially if you stick to original comp ratios. This might seem like a cheap project but the cost will spiral......good luck!
nick_968 said:
You dont need to lower the comp to supercharge unless you are going for high boost. You will run into problems with the limitations of the standard MAF at higher than 7psi and will also need to get someone like Wayne Schofield to map the ECU for the SC. The point of using the NA 2.7 8v head is to match the waterways of the 3.0 block to an 8v head that allows you to bolt on the 951 intake and exhaust manifolds. This is done to save money of fab work and also to save replacing all the exhaust valves in the 16v head to deal with the extra heat. I cant understand why anyone would supercharge a 2.5 engine as you are limiting youself from the start. Still it will be a good learning experience. Also above a certain boost level the radiator will struggle to keep temps down and you will also need to look at decent intercooling especially if you stick to original comp ratios. This might seem like a cheap project but the cost will spiral......good luck!
Teh 2.5 motor seems to be the longest lasting and most durable of the I4 motors and with the least to go wrong or need expensive maintenance (variocam etc).I don't want to use the 2.7 head, I want the 2.5 turbo head with its ceramic coated exhaust ports and sodium filled valves. I also was interested to know if it will flow any better then an n/a head or not.
I'm buying a house soon so want cheaper running costs/repairs and after all the horror stories associtated with maintaining the 68 motor (more precisely its top end and when it goes wrong) I don't want to be in a position where I have the house and a 44 with an expensive engine needing repairs meaning long downtimes. If I blew up a 2.5 motor you can pick another complete engine for £100 and away you go again. The charger route also has the ability to give more boost later on should I be able to get the motor to take more.
I'm looking at the SFR kit from the states but minus any afm's and their piggyback ecu.
I'd then use either an emerald ecu or (if I'm feeling brave again) a megasquirt ecu which I have alot of previous experiance with. In using one of these I can ditch any afm's and the restriction to airflow they pose and use a map sensor plus they'll be better than any standard ecu with piggyback ecu. If I go for the emerald then Dave wlaker will map any ecu he supplies for £200+vat regardless of how long it takes him.
The only thing thats a pain is the standard c/r.
Some may think its not worthwhile doing this but its a challenge and should if all goes well yield good power and be quite unique.
I'll atleast be able to match the power of some higly tuned 2.5T's!
The standard CR will not be a problem for a well tuned engine. The 2.7 head is no use to you anyway as it doesnt match up to the 2.5 block. You dont need the ceramic ports, you wont make as much heat as a turbo car and also it means you cannot port the exhaust side for better flow. The exhaust valves and springs you could steal from a damaged 951 head. Otherwise you will need to work out what the CR will be with a turbo head on a NA block. It may work ok but I dont know the CR offhand. The emerald with MAP is definately a good route to go down. If you are dead set on reducing compression the simplest way is to use a thicker head gasket, it is not ideal for squish but Ruf has used it on its supercharged cars before now. I understand your reasons for doing it this way and there is nothing wrong with that, horses for courses. Good luck.
Well its makes sense to leave the c/r as it is and see how it turns out.
THe sfr kit with i/c makes 8 or so psi which witha 10.5.:1 c/r may be risky. I could go for the pullies they use for the non cooled kit they do making baout 5-6 psi but with an i/c.
Thanks for understanding! So many people go "get a 68" I can't afford one nor get insurance even reomtely resembling sensible so diy it is! Even with a stack of mods the 2.5 44 is cheap to insure!
THe sfr kit with i/c makes 8 or so psi which witha 10.5.:1 c/r may be risky. I could go for the pullies they use for the non cooled kit they do making baout 5-6 psi but with an i/c.
Thanks for understanding! So many people go "get a 68" I can't afford one nor get insurance even reomtely resembling sensible so diy it is! Even with a stack of mods the 2.5 44 is cheap to insure!
With good tuning, EMS and good intercooling you should be ok but you will need to tread carefully. The 8v head is not as good at high comp ratios as the 16v head. There is a 2.5 16v you could take the head from and I dont think you would need to go to high temp exhaust valves for your boost levels. That way you could easily run the boost levels you want maybe more without reducing the comp ratios. Even a complete 2.5 engine would make a better starting point as the 16v will make a lot more power up top and be more detonation proof.
Sounds like an interesting project. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out. I do think at the end of it you'll look back and have spent far more than you intended but if you have fun along the way great.
One thing that disturbs me is if you cant insure a 968 which I know from past experience isn't vastly more than a 944 then i don't see how you will insure a supercharged 944 as I doubt there are any insurers that won't load it up due to that.
If your planning to just not tell them you won't make many friends here.
One thing that disturbs me is if you cant insure a 968 which I know from past experience isn't vastly more than a 944 then i don't see how you will insure a supercharged 944 as I doubt there are any insurers that won't load it up due to that.
If your planning to just not tell them you won't make many friends here.
I;m cursed when it comes to car insurance. My last project, a capri with a 4.0 v8 (cam'd up, ported bv heads, full balance, headers, nitrous, itb's, mappable ecu, lsd axle, lowered, uprated dampers, brakes, interior and exterior mods and so on was £500 to insure fully comp, pretty good but my standard 944 was £500 too and add another £100 for the bits I've done so far and it was another approx £200 for the charger but to insure a standard 968 it was £3k if at all. I have no garage so that probably doesn't help.
Regards to not telling the insurers I seem to be getting alot of people suggest (on other forums) that I may be doing that and once again I will say that no I'm not interested in doing that nor will I be doing that nor will I ever be doing that so thats that cleared up then eh
Regards to not telling the insurers I seem to be getting alot of people suggest (on other forums) that I may be doing that and once again I will say that no I'm not interested in doing that nor will I be doing that nor will I ever be doing that so thats that cleared up then eh
Ho does this sound, I have now at home a mill and lathe plus a spare engine I can rig up on a stand. I have the skills to use the machinary although I'd take a while doing it but it'd cost me less, just time, materials and an Eaton M90 (good choice for a low blow 2.5 setup do you think??) possibly costing less than £5 - 600 if I get lucky!
I must confess to liking the idea taking this on as there's alot of room under the bonnet and would give me something to do in the shoite winter months!
I started doing something like this with an m112 with my v8 capri but space was sooooooo tight I couldn't be bothered but was miffed at my giving up so this could be a chance to redeem myself!
This would also free up money to get a stronger bottom end to take some more boost (Sorry Mike I will call soon!!)
I must confess to liking the idea taking this on as there's alot of room under the bonnet and would give me something to do in the shoite winter months!
I started doing something like this with an m112 with my v8 capri but space was sooooooo tight I couldn't be bothered but was miffed at my giving up so this could be a chance to redeem myself!
This would also free up money to get a stronger bottom end to take some more boost (Sorry Mike I will call soon!!)
Update for those that have contacted me.
I'm bidding on a Paxton SN93 centrifugal charger so hopefully I'll win that but in the meantime I'm setting up a spare block and bits I have ready to make up the bracketry for the blower.
If lose out on the paxton I've got my eye on an M90.
Watch this space!
I'm bidding on a Paxton SN93 centrifugal charger so hopefully I'll win that but in the meantime I'm setting up a spare block and bits I have ready to make up the bracketry for the blower.
If lose out on the paxton I've got my eye on an M90.
Watch this space!
Mine's a Civic type r with the standard k20 engine block with the rev limit set 8.6k.It currently runs 397bhp.
TTS are really helpful, a friend has bought a rotrex from them for his mk1 escort that was running a high comp ratio cosworth engine. I think he paid around £1200 or £1300 for the 'charger,lines and oil cooler.
TTS are really helpful, a friend has bought a rotrex from them for his mk1 escort that was running a high comp ratio cosworth engine. I think he paid around £1200 or £1300 for the 'charger,lines and oil cooler.
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