Swift formula renault 1700 restoration.
Discussion
I recently aquired a Swift 9305 formula renault 1700. I have a few questions. First I find it curious it has BARC stickers on it, and I'm in the US. Obviously it may have been lucky enough to circuit some of the best tracks in the UK. It's a pretty neat formula car for what it is.
First, is how can I tell what year model the chassis is? I'm thinking it's the number 5 car of 1993.
Also, I know the engine is based on a production engine(laguna ?) with some renault sport upgrades. What do the upgrades include and what model car can I use to source parts.
Here's my problem the starter took a dump and I'm trying to find one. Well you can imagine trying to tell an American parts guy you have a renualt(let alone a race car) since they probably have never even see a renault road car. I'm not sure we even have renault dealerships in the country anymore. I did manage to cross reference the distributor cap, the leads come out different but fits the engine properly.
On the chassis. I've been told that brake calipers and such maybe over the counter road car parts. As far as chassis spares such as a arms, control rods, drive shafts etc. Does swift still supply parts as such or are there aftermarket companies for things like that.
Final question. It has 13 inch tires who makes a proper slick for this size that guys use on these cars?
Sorry for the long list of noob questions. I've been trying to prepare this car for the track again and I have found no good info and this site is the first site with anyone with a clue, so I graciously await some good advice.
Thank You,
Todd Bellew
First, is how can I tell what year model the chassis is? I'm thinking it's the number 5 car of 1993.
Also, I know the engine is based on a production engine(laguna ?) with some renault sport upgrades. What do the upgrades include and what model car can I use to source parts.
Here's my problem the starter took a dump and I'm trying to find one. Well you can imagine trying to tell an American parts guy you have a renualt(let alone a race car) since they probably have never even see a renault road car. I'm not sure we even have renault dealerships in the country anymore. I did manage to cross reference the distributor cap, the leads come out different but fits the engine properly.
On the chassis. I've been told that brake calipers and such maybe over the counter road car parts. As far as chassis spares such as a arms, control rods, drive shafts etc. Does swift still supply parts as such or are there aftermarket companies for things like that.
Final question. It has 13 inch tires who makes a proper slick for this size that guys use on these cars?
Sorry for the long list of noob questions. I've been trying to prepare this car for the track again and I have found no good info and this site is the first site with anyone with a clue, so I graciously await some good advice.
Thank You,
Todd Bellew
they were good cars but horrid engines, and horrid gear boxes, the early swifts ran on Firestone cross-plys, but the later they switched to michelin radials........the main problem with these cars I'm told is the engines had bad problems with fuel in oil (bore washing) and the oil needs to be changed regularly.......and the gearbox is from a renault van, so its ratios are totally unsuitable for circuit racing.......I nearly bought one of these cars when looking for a donor for my bike engined car project, but it was a messy design, so I used a VanDiemen Formula Renault 1700 instead, but I converted it to run on cross-plys, the VanDiemen car was a far tidier design.......I have been told to be very careful with the swift front upper wishbones, aparrently they corrode internally very badly, then they simply snap.......but I have been told when up and running, the swifts were a quick car, so dont be too dis-heartened.......the 1700 engine is from a renault 5 I think, its a typical euro-box roller skate of a car.
the calipers will be cast iron jobs, contact AP racing and they stock replacements
what make of tyres do you currently have?.....and at what camber settings?......I'd suggest you run Avon cross-plys, they worked great for me, and many other club racers, if your car is using radials, it will be running about 5-6 degrees camber, this will need to ba changed to 1-2 degrees for cross-plys.
the calipers will be cast iron jobs, contact AP racing and they stock replacements
what make of tyres do you currently have?.....and at what camber settings?......I'd suggest you run Avon cross-plys, they worked great for me, and many other club racers, if your car is using radials, it will be running about 5-6 degrees camber, this will need to ba changed to 1-2 degrees for cross-plys.
Edited by knighty on Thursday 31st January 16:33
Knighty,
Thanks for the info, really good stuff. Let me give a little history and our planned objective. I'm an independent race mechanic and my current boss has asked me to get the car up to spec. Now your going to be mad, he got it for free, just had to drive and pick it up.
His son is 15 y/o and going to start training and licensing for sports car racing. He has been karting successfully a few years and they are ready to try cars.
I figure the car is so out of date there are no classes (save some kind of vintage)or wouldn't be competitive. So we have a few raod courses that have open days and the local kart track (1.1 miles) has agreed to let us shake down there. I never plan to "race" the car, mostly a simple track day car that is a least a real race car. It will also give our young driver some kind of experience is a proper race car, even it's it beautifully old. lol
So my main objectives are safety. Brakes, suspension in date harness etc. Thats why the wishbone info is so good.
Of course, once the car is up to safety spec my natural need for speed will start concerning my self with max speed output.
So on to the tech stuff I know. The old tires on the car I believe are the michelin A"something" (avenger??). I haven't taken any chassis measurements so I'm not sure on the camber/toe situation.
Are there common methods for teting the integrity of the wishbones?
Also, I'm not sure the renault 5 came to the states, maybe, we had a car here called the alliance in the 80's that was a roller skate box that seems to match other parts from the engine.
As far as the brakes. The calipers have lockheed on them and the discs look rather specific. The discs are very thin(no internal venting) and just slip on the hub before the wheel with a spacer between. They looked very discolored, like they've been very hot. With such thin discs and unknown time on them they worry me. Calipers look pretty standard and shouldn't be a mint but the discs I don't know.
Thanks again.
Thanks for the info, really good stuff. Let me give a little history and our planned objective. I'm an independent race mechanic and my current boss has asked me to get the car up to spec. Now your going to be mad, he got it for free, just had to drive and pick it up.
His son is 15 y/o and going to start training and licensing for sports car racing. He has been karting successfully a few years and they are ready to try cars.
I figure the car is so out of date there are no classes (save some kind of vintage)or wouldn't be competitive. So we have a few raod courses that have open days and the local kart track (1.1 miles) has agreed to let us shake down there. I never plan to "race" the car, mostly a simple track day car that is a least a real race car. It will also give our young driver some kind of experience is a proper race car, even it's it beautifully old. lol
So my main objectives are safety. Brakes, suspension in date harness etc. Thats why the wishbone info is so good.
Of course, once the car is up to safety spec my natural need for speed will start concerning my self with max speed output.
So on to the tech stuff I know. The old tires on the car I believe are the michelin A"something" (avenger??). I haven't taken any chassis measurements so I'm not sure on the camber/toe situation.
Are there common methods for teting the integrity of the wishbones?
Also, I'm not sure the renault 5 came to the states, maybe, we had a car here called the alliance in the 80's that was a roller skate box that seems to match other parts from the engine.
As far as the brakes. The calipers have lockheed on them and the discs look rather specific. The discs are very thin(no internal venting) and just slip on the hub before the wheel with a spacer between. They looked very discolored, like they've been very hot. With such thin discs and unknown time on them they worry me. Calipers look pretty standard and shouldn't be a mint but the discs I don't know.
Thanks again.
Edited by Todd Bellew on Thursday 31st January 19:03
Just had a rummage through ebay looking for a pic, but I think the engine is from a renault 5 and renault 21, if you are ever ordering parts, just say its the 1.7 8-valve version with the single over hed cam, I think it dates from the mid to late 1980's.....for parts, you are best off contacting these people....
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/
just phone them up on the mail order line +44(0)208 917 3947, have the engine number in hand, starter make too, and they will sort you out for sure, I always get good service from them.
ref the brakes, to my knowledge, all formula renault 1700's used a cast iron brake caliper, as did the formula-fords of the time, I think its from a mini cooper, but AP racing still stock the original items, and I think they also do a re-build kit, just found a great link.
http://www.apracing.com/car/caliper/two.htm
I bet the caliper on the left is what you have, get the part numbers and see what you need.
Ref the discs, ask AP too, you are right to be suspicious, they sound just like the ones on my VanDiemen.....I think Swift are still running as a company in the UK, I spoke to them about 6 years ago ref spares for the car I nearly bought, and they were very helpful, and wadya know google has just thrown up!
http://www.swiftcooper.com/about.html
these boys were the original manufacturers of your car!
for god sake dont use those old tyres, they will be unsafe, as you are unaware of their age......do yourself a big favour and run some Avons, or I dare say Hoosier will do a nice tyre for it too, but be sure to use the correct camber settings depending if you go radial or crossply.......the reason I used crossply avons (and not radial michelins), is the crossplys heat up much quicker (about 1 lap) and the radials take about 4 laps, and if you slow down the radials lose heat very quickly, and you need to start all over again.......hence I'd go crossply
I'm told the wishbones trapped water, and a puddle sat in the bottom, and simply rotted the tube at its most highly stressed point, give it a tap with a ball hammer just to be sure.....but dont muller it out of shape, as you could get a fabricator to use the rusted wishbone/arm as a jig for making a replacement part.
got it for free eh - sounds about right - you cant give those away over here either, they are a minger of a car to look at, but I'm told they are quick in the right hands. it will be an ideal learner car for the kid, after that I'd say sell it on as a donor for a bike engined car in the new F1000 series, or failing that, get a FF2000 Pinto and Hewland type-9 gearbox and convert it to something more acceptable!......as believe me, the renault engine and gearbox are shite......especially the gearbox!
http://www.gsfcarparts.com/
just phone them up on the mail order line +44(0)208 917 3947, have the engine number in hand, starter make too, and they will sort you out for sure, I always get good service from them.
ref the brakes, to my knowledge, all formula renault 1700's used a cast iron brake caliper, as did the formula-fords of the time, I think its from a mini cooper, but AP racing still stock the original items, and I think they also do a re-build kit, just found a great link.
http://www.apracing.com/car/caliper/two.htm
I bet the caliper on the left is what you have, get the part numbers and see what you need.
Ref the discs, ask AP too, you are right to be suspicious, they sound just like the ones on my VanDiemen.....I think Swift are still running as a company in the UK, I spoke to them about 6 years ago ref spares for the car I nearly bought, and they were very helpful, and wadya know google has just thrown up!
http://www.swiftcooper.com/about.html
these boys were the original manufacturers of your car!
for god sake dont use those old tyres, they will be unsafe, as you are unaware of their age......do yourself a big favour and run some Avons, or I dare say Hoosier will do a nice tyre for it too, but be sure to use the correct camber settings depending if you go radial or crossply.......the reason I used crossply avons (and not radial michelins), is the crossplys heat up much quicker (about 1 lap) and the radials take about 4 laps, and if you slow down the radials lose heat very quickly, and you need to start all over again.......hence I'd go crossply
I'm told the wishbones trapped water, and a puddle sat in the bottom, and simply rotted the tube at its most highly stressed point, give it a tap with a ball hammer just to be sure.....but dont muller it out of shape, as you could get a fabricator to use the rusted wishbone/arm as a jig for making a replacement part.
got it for free eh - sounds about right - you cant give those away over here either, they are a minger of a car to look at, but I'm told they are quick in the right hands. it will be an ideal learner car for the kid, after that I'd say sell it on as a donor for a bike engined car in the new F1000 series, or failing that, get a FF2000 Pinto and Hewland type-9 gearbox and convert it to something more acceptable!......as believe me, the renault engine and gearbox are shite......especially the gearbox!
Edited by knighty on Thursday 31st January 21:49
Edited by knighty on Thursday 31st January 21:54
Edited by knighty on Thursday 31st January 21:55
Knighty,
Thanks for the info again. I never would use the tires I have, I was just mentioning that was what was last mounted.
Maybe you can help me with this. I can start the engine and it sits and idles very nice. It takes moderate revs maybe 2000 or so. But, if you throttle the engine any real amount the engine will take revs very nice for maybe a second or less then completely shuts down. The switch has to be cycled and then it will restart to do the same thing again. At idle it nevers shuts off.
I replaced some old fuel lines and filter but not the pump or regualtor. And of course added fresh fuel. I'm leaning towards some type of ignition situation. I'm not sure if there are some types of safety switches I'm not aware of (oil pressure, fuel pressure??)
I know you warned me, but, I get paid whether it's a pile or not. lol And it gets better, we called the old owner about some questions and in the process said he'd send down a spare engine and tranny.
Thanks for the info again. I never would use the tires I have, I was just mentioning that was what was last mounted.
Maybe you can help me with this. I can start the engine and it sits and idles very nice. It takes moderate revs maybe 2000 or so. But, if you throttle the engine any real amount the engine will take revs very nice for maybe a second or less then completely shuts down. The switch has to be cycled and then it will restart to do the same thing again. At idle it nevers shuts off.
I replaced some old fuel lines and filter but not the pump or regualtor. And of course added fresh fuel. I'm leaning towards some type of ignition situation. I'm not sure if there are some types of safety switches I'm not aware of (oil pressure, fuel pressure??)
I know you warned me, but, I get paid whether it's a pile or not. lol And it gets better, we called the old owner about some questions and in the process said he'd send down a spare engine and tranny.
sounds like something might be wrong with the ECU side of things, I'd say look at the throttle potentiometer, check its giving the right voltage for an idle situation, they need to be very finley adjusted with a voltmeter attached........ and check the MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor condition if one is fited.......as a last resort, buy a pair of twin 40 side draught carbs off ebay and a manifold to suit and convert it to run on carbs, as I dare say electrics that are 15 years old will be painful.
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