Fitch Fuel Catylst

[350Matt]

Anybody heard of this thing before?


http://www.fitchfuelcatalyst.com/

seems a bit Snake oil-ish to me but it's not infeasible that it can work the way they say it would.

Waddya think?

Matt

[jimmystratos]

Complete bks.

[dickkark]

Is that Fitch or should it read FILCH

[eliot]

O goody a new snake-oil thread, where's my popcorn..

[350Matt]

Well what piques my interest is that unlike most of these 'magic power in a can' products they show proper back to back dyno tests on a variety of engines and they list some pretty big companies as customers.

Plus one of the major factors in proving diesel combustion efficency is to increase the cetane content in the fuel and this gizmo does exactly that.

mind you its not exactly cheap at £156

Matt

[wildoliver]

Do I need to say it.......

[GreenV8S]

A brief Google suggests that in principle it may be possible for a catalyst to raise the cetane rating of some fuels, but I'm skeptical that they actually achieve this especially since they seem to be making the claim for petrol as well as diesel.

Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 18th March 16:45

[350Matt]

Thing is I've got a customer who's asking if he should fit one and he's already pretty keen on the idea, now I'm prepared to be convinced but I've seen too much of this sort of magic jollop to say hand on heart it should work.

However the chemistry I think is sound and a customer list is:

* Hyatt Hotels
* Conoco Phillips
* Union Pacific Railway
* Verizon
* Hutchison Essar Telecom
* Reliance Telecom
* Codetel


so potentially they've shifted a lot a units.

So apart from the knee-jerk reaction of it must be b@llocks what do people think? and take a look at the website and all of the dyno tests please.

Matt

[GreenV8S]

Sounds to me as if your customer needs to find an independent engineering outfit who would be willing to carry out an impartial scientific test (double blind etc) to see whether it's any good.

Edited by GreenV8S on Wednesday 19th March 01:39

[ZeeTacoe]

if its that good why don't the manufacturers use it?

[peterguk V6 KWK]

350Matt said:

So apart from the knee-jerk reaction of it must be b@llocks what do people think?
Matt

it must be b@llocks

[dilbert]

I have never used a fuel catalyst, but it remains one of the few "snake-oil" *type* products that I would not dismiss out of hand. As has been said, you probably need to test it to find out if it can achieve what you want it to.

[Mr2Mike]

Fitch FAQ said:

Refineries cannot remove many poorly performing molecules to make a more ideal fuel.

So fuel companies can't achieve it, but this company have developed a lump of alloy that does. Surely an oil company would have simply bought them out for this if it actually did anything apart from lightening the wallets of the gullible?

Fitch Claims said:

Improve fuel economy
Improve horespower and torque
Reduce emissions
Less carbon deposits in engine
Saves money
Permanently stabilizes fuel
Extend engine life
Less engine and fuel system maintenance
Allows the use of a lower octane fuel w/o sacrificing performance

Where have I seen these claims before? Oh yes, from EVERY other scamming snake oil pedlars.

[Pigeon]

Mr2Mike said:

Fitch FAQ said:

Refineries cannot remove many poorly performing molecules to make a more ideal fuel.

So fuel companies can't achieve it, but this company have developed a lump of alloy that does. Surely an oil company would have simply bought them out for this if it actually did anything apart from lightening the wallets of the gullible?

Fitch Claims said:

Improve fuel economy
Improve horespower and torque
Reduce emissions
Less carbon deposits in engine
Saves money
Permanently stabilizes fuel
Extend engine life
Less engine and fuel system maintenance
Allows the use of a lower octane fuel w/o sacrificing performance

Where have I seen these claims before? Oh yes, from EVERY other scamming snake oil pedlars.

My thoughts exactly, and also:

Fitch FAQ said:

In addition, once fuel leaves the refinery or is stored it is subject to attack by oxygen, ozone, and microorganisms (bacteria, yeast, and mold) that grow in the fuel. All these processes degrade the fuel to make a poorer product that prevents engines from performing at optimum levels. The Fitch Fuel Catalyst reformulates fuel prior to combustion on board the vehicle, preventing oxygen and most diseases from attacking the fuel and reversing any degradation that may have occurred prior to the fuel being introduced to the vehicle.

So it reverses degradation due to oxidation. Very clever. Oxidation is exothermic. Where does it get the energy from? Same goes for little buglets eating it... they do that to extract energy.

Be great if it did work, all we'd need to do would be allow some hydrocarbon fuel to partially oxidise and extract the energy released, then drop some of this stuff in and get back where we started, rinse and repeat, my car runs for free.

It prevents oxygen from attacking the fuel. How? It can't affect the chemical conditions for the fuel in bulk, only on the surface of the catalyst. If it does gradually chemically transform it in bulk, how does this square with the claim that it nevertheless burns (ie. is attacked by oxygen) better in the cylinders?

LOL @ "diseases attacking the fuel"...

[Deltaf01]

Hiss.

[dilbert]

Pigeon said:

Mr2Mike said:

Fitch FAQ said:

Refineries cannot remove many poorly performing molecules to make a more ideal fuel.

So fuel companies can't achieve it, but this company have developed a lump of alloy that does. Surely an oil company would have simply bought them out for this if it actually did anything apart from lightening the wallets of the gullible?

Fitch Claims said:

Improve fuel economy
Improve horespower and torque
Reduce emissions
Less carbon deposits in engine
Saves money
Permanently stabilizes fuel
Extend engine life
Less engine and fuel system maintenance
Allows the use of a lower octane fuel w/o sacrificing performance

Where have I seen these claims before? Oh yes, from EVERY other scamming snake oil pedlars.

My thoughts exactly, and also:

Fitch FAQ said:

In addition, once fuel leaves the refinery or is stored it is subject to attack by oxygen, ozone, and microorganisms (bacteria, yeast, and mold) that grow in the fuel. All these processes degrade the fuel to make a poorer product that prevents engines from performing at optimum levels. The Fitch Fuel Catalyst reformulates fuel prior to combustion on board the vehicle, preventing oxygen and most diseases from attacking the fuel and reversing any degradation that may have occurred prior to the fuel being introduced to the vehicle.

So it reverses degradation due to oxidation. Very clever. Oxidation is exothermic. Where does it get the energy from? Same goes for little buglets eating it... they do that to extract energy.

Be great if it did work, all we'd need to do would be allow some hydrocarbon fuel to partially oxidise and extract the energy released, then drop some of this stuff in and get back where we started, rinse and repeat, my car runs for free.

It prevents oxygen from attacking the fuel. How? It can't affect the chemical conditions for the fuel in bulk, only on the surface of the catalyst. If it does gradually chemically transform it in bulk, how does this square with the claim that it nevertheless burns (ie. is attacked by oxygen) better in the cylinders?

LOL @ "diseases attacking the fuel"...

Let me preface this with the statement "What I am about to say, in no way validates this product!"

It could affect the chmical conditions of the fuel in bulk. I have a (rarely used) wotsit that I put contact lenses into. As I understand it, the blob of manganese dioxide in the bottom the wotsit is a catalyst. It helps convert the hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen. If you leave it long enough, it converts as much hydrogen peroxide as you like, even though the blob is small.

I accept that you're saying the fuel still has to bun, but I do also recognise that pump petrol has allsorts in it, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is something in normal pump petrol, that would catalyse to something more conducive to the burn.

Obviously, the effectiveness of such a solution is not only dependent on the catalyst, but the content of the fuel supply, and most significantly it's consistency.

I'm certainly not an expert at this stuff, but my guess is that *this sort* of product is less "snake oil", and more "lucky dip".

Edited by dilbert on Thursday 20th March 00:48

[Pigeon]

dilbert said:

It could affect the chmical conditions of the fuel in bulk. I have a (rarely used) wotsit that I put contact lenses into. As I understand it, the blob of manganese dioxide in the bottom the wotsit is a catalyst. It helps convert the hydrogen peroxide into water and oxygen. If you leave it long enough, it converts as much hydrogen peroxide as you like, even though the blob is small.

That's not exactly what I meant, I meant that it can only have any effect to prevent oxidation at the surface of the catalyst, unless it affects the fuel in bulk. Which means every molecule of the fuel having to come into contact with the catalyst. So it's not going to happen if you fill your car up and then go for a long journey, and it's not going to happen to the fuel in the tank in the case of one of the in-line units.

dilbert said:

I accept that you're saying the fuel still has to bun, but I do also recognise that pump petrol has allsorts in it, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is something in normal pump petrol, that would catalyse to something more conducive to the burn.

Catalysing pump fuel into anything different is for the lose in one way or another. It consists mainly of saturated hydrocarbons with some unsaturated and aromatics. The isomeric mix of the saturated hydrocarbons is already adjusted catalytically at the refinery, and to reform them into anything else will inevitably involve the loss of hydrogen and with it energy. Do anything to the unsaturateds and aromatics and you'll lose octane. Essentially, you can't really reshuffle it to make it better, you have to put bits in and take bits out, so you need a source of bits and a sink too.

[dilbert]

Like I say, I don't know the details of fuel chemistry, beyond..... whooomph!

I'm sure you're right. TBH this is the first time I've heard of anyone making such claims about diesel, and fuel catalysts.