Is the dealer telling the truth?

[AndySA]

Hi

I have a diesel focus that would not start properly on Tuesday morning after a few occations of lumpy low rev running.

On tuesday it really battled to start and at times would only just idle, nothing would get it to rev more than 1000 rpm and any load would cause it to stall. It was taken off to the dealer and have now been told that they believe the EGR valve needs replacing and that they suspect it was caused by water in the diesel.

My question is could water in the diesel damage an EGR valve and if so how?

Regards

Andrew

[odyssey2200]

AndySA said:

Hi

I have a diesel focus that would not start properly on Tuesday morning after a few occations of lumpy low rev running.

On tuesday it really battled to start and at times would only just idle, nothing would get it to rev more than 1000 rpm and any load would cause it to stall. It was taken off to the dealer and have now been told that they believe the EGR valve needs replacing and that they suspect it was caused by water in the diesel.

My question is could water in the diesel damage an EGR valve and if so how?

Regards

Andrew

Water in the fuel would be burnt in the combustion cahmber and cause steam in the exhause, which you might notice.

IMHO it would have to be a hell of a lot of water in the fuel to cause the EGR to stick.
The EGR is usually very hot and would not allow steam to condense.

Also

Look in your owners manual.
Most modern Diesels have a sensor in the fuel filter which detects water.
you car has a Delphi systen IIRC the same as the Ssangyongs I had.
They had a water sensor built into the bottom of the filter and a warning likht on the dash to warn the driver, before the water caused damage to the high pressure pump.

At risk of being proven wrong I would say that they are talking bks!

[AndySA]

That is the same way i am thinking, but as I know even less about diesel engines than petrol I did not want to make an arse of myself when confronting them tomorrow.

As the car is still under warrentee and maintenance plan my 1st thought was of them trying to get out of paying for the repair.

[Holst]

AndySA said:

That is the same way i am thinking, but as I know even less about diesel engines than petrol I did not want to make an arse of myself when confronting them tomorrow.

As the car is still under warrentee and maintenance plan my 1st thought was of them trying to get out of paying for the repair.

I think your first instincts were correct.

I hope they loose you as a customer for trying it on.

[Dave_ST220]

EGR failure on a Ford diesel?? Surely not!!!

[AndySA]

The latest news from the dealer is that the car will not be ready for the weekend as they now believe that something is wrong with the turbo and they need to strip the engine down to get to it.

Looks like it is going to be a long process!

[stevieturbo]

Part of the problem with dealers, and modern cars.

Dealers dont have a clue, and modern cars are now too technical for their own good, which is making them very unreliable, and very difficult to fix.

[annodomini2]

Has it recently had a knock on the front bumper? (Can't remember which side) e.g. catch a kerb.

One side under the front bumper there is the Injection control ECU, (The ford EEC not upto the job, although they insist on having one!)

Check the connections as there are 3 separate connectors on the ECU one may be loose.

They have known to become damaged when knocked.

Logically if it was the EGR Valve, it would rev with no load (i.e. neutral), but not rev/no power under load. But it should idle correctly and shouldn't stop the engine from starting.

Same for the turbo, unless its seized. But I doubt it would run at all.

[paolow]

AndySA said:

The latest news from the dealer is that the car will not be ready for the weekend as they now believe that something is wrong with the turbo and they need to strip the engine down to get to it.

Looks like it is going to be a long process!

hope its under warranty! :S

[stigmundfreud]

had a similar issue on my x-type diseasle. The wires for the air flow meter had apparantly melted through... (70 quid fix, part was about a fiver the rest was labour - if only they had given me the part I'd have done it myself )

[Silent1]

Blank the EGR valve off, if the car runs you know it's that, if not, then try something else.

FWIW i've blanked the EGR valve off on all my cars.

[Busa_Rush]

Silent1 said:

FWIW i've blanked the EGR valve off on all my cars.

And mine, makes them much smoother and removes something else that will go wrong in time.

[stevieturbo]

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

[Silent1]

stevieturbo said:

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

Not if you leave it plugged in and not interfering with it's operation.

[stevieturbo]

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

Not if you leave it plugged in and not interfering with it's operation.

Oh yes they do. Modern common rail engines are so troublesome. VW and Vauxhall defo dont like tampering.

[VYT]

Wonder if they have checked the fuel pressure. Low fuel pressure will give poor starting and / or loss of power.

[Silent1]

stevieturbo said:

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

Not if you leave it plugged in and not interfering with it's operation.

Oh yes they do. Modern common rail engines are so troublesome. VW and Vauxhall defo dont like tampering.

Oh really? My VX220 has it's EGR blanked off, as does my 1.4 Audi A2

[Mattt]

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

Not if you leave it plugged in and not interfering with it's operation.

Oh yes they do. Modern common rail engines are so troublesome. VW and Vauxhall defo dont like tampering.

Oh really? My VX220 has it's EGR blanked off, as does my 1.4 Audi A2

Unless you converted your VX220 to a diesel - it isn't a common rail

[Silent1]

Mattt said:

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Silent1 said:

stevieturbo said:

Most modern cars will throw a wobbler if you tamper with the EGR...older cars it is fine to blank them off though

Not if you leave it plugged in and not interfering with it's operation.

Oh yes they do. Modern common rail engines are so troublesome. VW and Vauxhall defo dont like tampering.

Oh really? My VX220 has it's EGR blanked off, as does my 1.4 Audi A2

Unless you converted your VX220 to a diesel - it isn't a common rail

Alright then, how about my L200.

[richies2.0gl]

To be fair, before exploring the most complex faults, it is sometimes better to investigate the obvious. To me it sounds like fuel starvation. I would check the fuel filter, leakages and a possible obstruction in the fuel lines before I looked at EGR valves or turbos. Also, if the turbo or EGR was at fault the engine would not display the symptoms you described as I am pretty sure the engine would still rev more than 1000rpm.