What ECU

[marT350T]

I am looking for a new ECU for my turbo charged car this winter to replace my emerald.

I would like such features as anti lag lauch control and selectable maps.

Can anyone recommend any giving approximate prices of install and set up.

I have been quoted £3500 for a Motec which is a bit steep I think.

[r1ot]

This may sound a bit odd but I have an emerald K3. This has the facilty of having up to 3 maps in memory, boost control and full throttle shift to name a few.

Have a chat with emerald I'm not too sure but I think they can do an upgrade on the earlier models.

[Chassis 33]

Don't most ECU's have selectable maps these days, the current Emerald and MBE do, so does Megasquirt (even). I say even because MS is capable of much if not all of the off the shelf ECU's. My only real experience with aftermarket ECU's is MS, but in non turbo applications, however it has launch control, boost control and flat shift etc. Give Phil Ringwood a shout either via PH (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?memberId=27870&name=) or his website http://www.extraefi.co.uk/

Starting from scratch I'd wager you could be sorted for less that £1000
Regards
Iain

[r1ot]

Have a look at the Emerald web site. http://www.emeraldm3d.com/index.html

If you have an M3DK ECU serial number 41272 or higher an upgrade to the K3 costs £30!!

Failing that a new K3 costs £580 which is what I did and Dave Walker is probably one of the best in the business which is good to know when you can't get the thing to work. (Never buy a coil pack from Ebay)

I use my K3 in two different cars the maps for each cars are stored in memory and for the kit car the map select is set to zero volts by a link in the plug and in the other car the link is set to a 5 volt rail so the map selects automatically so I don't have to re program the ECU every time I swap it over.

[CNHSS1]

im a huge Dave Walker and Emerald fan, but if i were starting again from scratch i would seriously look at the Motec ecus if its for a full-on race engine. the Emerald K3 is use is ace dont get me wrong, but the development is enthusiast-developed (Dave and business partner Karl are as big a pair of car nuts as you'll find) but the Motec is a more expensive and 'market' driven range.
im not sure if i would buy the Motec as you can easily spend 2-3times what the Emerald costs, but developments do seem to come out sooner albeit costly, wheras Emerald can be slower on the updates although they are often free or cheap as chips when they do arrive.
Motec mappers do seem to add a 'motec tax' where as Walker is one of the few 'no bullst' guys ive come across, in fact hes often talked himself out of a sale rather than empty my wallet just because he had the chance.
I found Omex regularly unhelpful and dearer, for what wasnt any better spec than the K3, and the enquiries made with DTA failed with the attitude on the phone during the first conversation!

Hope that helps,
CNH

[Vixpy1]

IMHO Motec have an undesired good rep, they are a nightmare to map, almost universally my mappers hate them with a vengance.

There are much better ECU's out there, for alot less money.

[CNHSS1]

Oh by the way, on the latest K3 software the 4 individual wheel speeds can be seen in the software screen (although greyed out as not yet released) ready for the full adjustable traction control and launch control.
still being tested according to Karl before release...

[marT350T]

The reason I was thinking of changing was because when I got my car mapped I got told that with emerald you map the fuel and ignition against throttle position and not against boost which is far better (according to him)

The ecu was purchased in 2004 will check the serial number when I get home.

I have emailed emerald a few times about getting a remap they are always very bust and I have been told there rolling road can only handle 250 bhp is this true ?

[stevieturbo]

marT350T said:

I am looking for a new ECU for my turbo charged car this winter to replace my emerald.

I would like such features as anti lag lauch control and selectable maps.

Can anyone recommend any giving approximate prices of install and set up.

I have been quoted £3500 for a Motec which is a bit steep I think.

Only a bit steep ? lol

What do you want from the ecu really ? Who will be mapping it ? Does your preferred tuner, have an ecu that he likes, or are you prepared to travel to a specific ecu tuner, or do it yourself ?

Injector/fuel requirements ?? ( if you need loads of fuel, think low impedance injectors, or multiple injectors per cylinder )

Do you need sequential injection, what crank/cam trigger will you use ?

Do you want logging ( IMO, that is well worth having )

Is it a road car, or track car ? Do you have to meet any awkward emissions requirements ?

Do you need to control many devices ? eg, NOS, variable cam timing ?
Why do you need multiple maps ?


Most modern ecu's are very versatile, and have most of the above covered. Injector is one area though that many dont have covered.

Motec can drive any injector, as can Haltech. Most others require high impedance injectors, which dont always come in the big flow rates.
Although, until you need more than about 7-800cc per cylinder, that wont be a concern either.

Naturally, my budget choice is a DTA S80Pro, as I am using it. ( or 60pro would probably do you..it only loses traction control really if its only a 4 cyl car ( 80pro is intended for 8 cylinder seq )
Cant be arsed going into the ins and outs, take a look and see yourself. I think its a doddle to use, logging is very good, but it does only do high impedance injectors. Easy to do 2 inj per cyl though, which I am now using.
S60Pro
http://www.dtafast.co.uk/S_60_PRO.htm

Haltech's E8, or E11 is another option. Can drive any injectors, has logging ( but no decent viewing software as far as I know ), has 2 full switchable maps, anti-lag, launch, and a variety of features.
IMO, it can do pretty much anything a Motec can, for a fraction of the price.

http://www.haltech.com/e11v2.htm


Although what I will say about the Motec. NO other ecu I have come across comes close to the Motec's testing and diagnostics should you have a fault somewhere. The ability to test every channel at any time, is excellent. Rare that its needed though.

[stevieturbo]

marT350T said:

The reason I was thinking of changing was because when I got my car mapped I got told that with emerald you map the fuel and ignition against throttle position and not against boost which is far better (according to him)

The ecu was purchased in 2004 will check the serial number when I get home.

I have emailed emerald a few times about getting a remap they are always very bust and I have been told there rolling road can only handle 250 bhp is this true ?

I would be very very surprised if it cant do MAP vs RPM as the main load parameters.

And anyone who tells you mapping a boosted engine with TPS vs RPM is the best way, is talking through their arse IMO ( and this also includes the supplier of my ecu lol )
It can work, but its a PITA to get all the relevant boost compensations right, and even then, there will always be compromises made due to these blanket compensations.

MAP vs RPM is the only way to map a boosted engine IMO. If your tuner says otherwise, get a new tuner.

[Vixpy1]

stevieturbo said:

MAP vs RPM is the only way to map a boosted engine IMO. If your tuner says otherwise, get a new tuner.

Absolutey.

[marT350T]

Cheers stevie I shall check out your links

I maybe didnt not write it clearly but the reason I wanted to change from the emerald is that it is mapping tps against rpm.
And the tuner was saying it is better to map boost against rpm.

Maybe I could get a map sensor for my car and get it to work with the emerald

[marT350T]

I have just checked emeralds web site and they sell MAP sensors so hopefully I will be able to stick with my ecu and up grade. Thanks for everyones input.

[lookout]

Try the new Haltech units. Very similar to Motec, but much cheaper. Interface very easy to use.

http://www.haltech.com.au/

[BigBen]

I will most likely be selling a Pectel T6 ECU in the next couple of weeks, more of a race unit than the Emerald but a bit hardcore for my application.

Ben

[Herman Toothrot]

LINK G3 is great and cheap £500

http://www.roguemotorsport.com/forms/products.aspx...

got on on My Eunos, very user friendly and lots of people map them. Has Antilag, flat shift, launch control, boost control, switchable maps the works

[stevieturbo]

Links are very basic....and the G3 having only 1 injector driver.....well, basic.

Not saying they are bad, but unless you were on a very tight budget, I wouldnt even consider it.
And for something expecting to make a lot of power...I just wouldnt use it.

[Herman Toothrot]

stevieturbo said:

Links are very basic....and the G3 having only 1 injector driver.....well, basic.

Not saying they are bad, but unless you were on a very tight budget, I wouldnt even consider it.
And for something expecting to make a lot of power...I just wouldnt use it.

No it doesn't, 4 ignition drivers 2 injector drivers as as its aimed at 4 cylinder or rotary is ideal.

I know of several 500bhp+ MR2's running them, heres an example for you :-

http://www.2bartuning.com/#/phoenixpowerdemocar/45...


My Eunos 133bhp stock runs 250bhp with one.

LINK G3 spec said:

Engine Configurations:

- 2-12 Cylinder Distributed
- 2-8 Cylinder Wasted Spark
- 2-4 Cylinder Direct Spark
- 1-2 Rotor
- User Configurable Firing Order
Fueling Adjustments:

- Up to 440 Zone Fuel Table with configurable load and RPM centres. MGP, MAP and load options
- Dual Fuel Tables
- Up to 4D Fuel Mapping
- Injection Rate
- Master Enrichment
- Pre Crank Prime
- Crank Enrichment
- Post Start Enrichment
- Warm Up Enrichment
- Acceleration Enrichment
- IAT Fuel Correction
- Injector Deadtime
- Overrun Fuel Cut
- Idle Load Trims
- Fuel Temperature Correction
Ignition Adjustments:

- Crank Dwell Extension
- Maximum Advance
- Spark Duration
- Dwell Time
- Up to 440 Zone Ignition Table with configurable load and RPM centres. MGP, MAP and TPS load options.
- Dual Ignition Tables
- Up to 4D Ignition Mapping
- Individual Cylinder Ignition Trim
- IAT Trim
- ECT Trim
Limits:

- Engine Temperature Dependent Soft and Hard RPM Limit
- Engine Temperature Dependent Soft and Hard Boost Limit
- Vehicle Speed Limit
- System Voltage Limit
Triggering:

- Digital Trigger Decoding
- Choose from configurable trigger patterns or preset triggering options.
MotorSport Features:

- Antilag (Group A mode)
- Launch/Traction Control
- Flat Shifting
Auxiliary Output Options:

- General Purpose Output
- General Purpose PWM
- Idle Speed Control (Solenoid or Stepper)
- Fuel Pump
- Fuel Pump Speed Control
- Engine Fan
- Air Con Clutch
- Air Con Fan
- Intercooler Spray
- Tacho
- Check Engine Light
- Purge Solenoid

Processing

- 40 MHz Specialised Automotive Microprocessor
- Ignition control to 0.1 degree, fuel to 0.01 ms
- 32 Bit Calculation
- 10 Bit ADC Resolution
- Max 20000 RPM
Inputs/Outputs:

- 2 High Current Injector Drives
- 4 Ignition Channels
- 8 Auxiliary Outputs
- 1 Digital Input
- +5V Out
- +8V Out
- 2 Temperature Inputs
- 2 0-5V Analog Inputs
- 2 Trigger Signal Inputs (Reluctor, Optical or Hall Sensors)
- Internal MAP Sensor (2.5 Bar Absolute)
Communications:

- On Board USB (Tuning Port)
- Serial
- CAN Bus
Analog Inputs:

- Wideband O2 (from external controller)
- Boost Adjust Signal
- Voltage (0-5V)
- Pyro (from external controller)
- General Purpose Pressure
Boost Control:

- Open or Closed Loop
- Engine Temp Correction
- IAT Correction
- Dual Boost Tables
Idle Control:

- Open or Closed Loop
- Solenoid or Stepper Motor ISC Valve
- Aircon, Engine Fan or Power Steer idle up
Temperature Inputs:

- Custom or preset temperature sensors (IAT, ECT, Fuel Temp. or General Purpose Temp.)
Physical:

- Length: 170 mm
- Width: 115 mm
- Height: 33 mm
- Connector : 26 Pin Automotive
Package Contents:

- LEMG3 ECU
- 2 Metre Wiring Harness
- Mounting Brackets and Screws
- Wiring and Installation Instructions
- PCLink Tuning Software and USB Drivers

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Tuesday 1st July 19:24

[Mikey-S]

I used a DTA system around 5 years ago. It was a doddle to wire up and after spending almost a day on the rolling road the car was faultless. I covered 10,500 trouble free miles before selling the car.

Highly recommended and cheap as chips.

Mike

[hiltonig]

CNHSS1 said:

im a huge Dave Walker and Emerald fan, but if i were starting again from scratch i would seriously look at the Motec ecus if its for a full-on race engine. the Emerald K3 is use is ace dont get me wrong, but the development is enthusiast-developed (Dave and business partner Karl are as big a pair of car nuts as you'll find) but the Motec is a more expensive and 'market' driven range.
im not sure if i would buy the Motec as you can easily spend 2-3times what the Emerald costs, but developments do seem to come out sooner albeit costly, wheras Emerald can be slower on the updates although they are often free or cheap as chips when they do arrive.
Motec mappers do seem to add a 'motec tax' where as Walker is one of the few 'no bullst' guys ive come across, in fact hes often talked himself out of a sale rather than empty my wallet just because he had the chance.
I found Omex regularly unhelpful and dearer, for what wasnt any better spec than the K3, and the enquiries made with DTA failed with the attitude on the phone during the first conversation!

Hope that helps,
CNH

funny when it was looking at alternatives I have same unhelp full response from DTA, went for Emerald in the end for the offered support.