zetec tuning costs?
Discussion
chuntington101 said:
LotusNova, sorry mate but why do you think a centrifugal type blower is harder on the transmition than a positive displacement blower?? LOTS of torque low down is always going to pose more of a problem then high power at higher RPM.
Cheers
Chris.
Er...I did this morning, but I don't any longer. Cheers
Chris.
Just learning as I go, so make that 'easier to drive' only then.
Shirt, sadly I don't own the car anymore.I bought the car with the engine in it,although 'not quite right' The engine came from a 2000mile write off.The engine was basically standard,albeit stronger big end bolts, rear wheel drive conversion,such as sump and lighter steel flywheel. I had jenvey 45mm throttle bodies and extended them with a spacer which pushed the filter outside the bonnet.The emerald ecu ran the car and a standard westfield silencer with a car solutions silencer. If you want a torque and power graph for this, Dave normally uses half the registration number to record it on his PC. If you give him a bell and ask for 'Q212' it should come up and he'll mail it to you.
The engine was £400, ecu, exhaust,sump, flywheel and conversion from a CVH engine probably stood at about £2k.
The engine was £400, ecu, exhaust,sump, flywheel and conversion from a CVH engine probably stood at about £2k.
Phil,
Finally yes. They don't normally deal with private enquiries, and don't have a dealer network either, so I'm not their top priority.
The appropriate model is the Lys 1200 AX. Cost circa £1,756 inc. tax for the base unit (need to add ancilliaries & fitting). If you're interested, the guy to talk to is Robert Petersson.
Jon.
Finally yes. They don't normally deal with private enquiries, and don't have a dealer network either, so I'm not their top priority.
The appropriate model is the Lys 1200 AX. Cost circa £1,756 inc. tax for the base unit (need to add ancilliaries & fitting). If you're interested, the guy to talk to is Robert Petersson.
Jon.
Mr2Mike said:
If the Zetec fits then you should be able to fit a 20XE. Then 200bhp is merely a set of throttle bodies and a well designed exhaust manifold away.
Not a chance. A standard XE, like the later Zetec with the same 33mm inlet valves, will show about 175, maybe just 180 bhp with TBs and a decent exhaust on accurate rollers. Add the 5 to 10 bhp most rolling roads read high and 185 bhp isn't an unusual figure but it doesn't really exist. It takes headwork and/or cams to get anywhere near a true 200 bhp on either engine although it isn't difficult to get.Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
LotusNova said:
Phil,
Finally yes. They don't normally deal with private enquiries, and don't have a dealer network either, so I'm not their top priority.
The appropriate model is the Lys 1200 AX. Cost circa £1,756 inc. tax for the base unit (need to add ancilliaries & fitting). If you're interested, the guy to talk to is Robert Petersson.
Jon.
interesting, thanks for the info. jon.Finally yes. They don't normally deal with private enquiries, and don't have a dealer network either, so I'm not their top priority.
The appropriate model is the Lys 1200 AX. Cost circa £1,756 inc. tax for the base unit (need to add ancilliaries & fitting). If you're interested, the guy to talk to is Robert Petersson.
Jon.
vortech v-9 f kit works out about the same price before shipping [its $3100] but is ready to fit. the v-9 alone is $2k so i guess an extra £500 or so is worth it fora screw-type charger.
something to think about in the winter months
Just a quick note on tuning the Zetec. One day I'll get round to adding a tuning article on it on my website but since I've retired from tuning it isn't a high priority.
The later solid lifter engine has 1mm bigger inlet and exhaust valves, 33mm & 29mm compared to the hydraulic lifter engine's 32mm & 28mm. It isn't rated at a higher bhp as standard but it certainly has more potential. The most restrictive thing on it is the exhaust manifold which bends up and then back down very abruptly and saps 15 bhp. Replacing that with the ST170 tubular manifold gives you 142 to 145 bhp. The full ST170 system is worth another few bhp and the ST170 inlet system maybe 5 more again.
The true output of an ST170 is nowhere near 170 bhp. That was just a marketing figure. 155 bhp is a more representative number so you can get pretty close to that on a base engine with just the manifold, a decent exhaust system and a few tweaks to the inlet. The standard air intake isn't ideal.
With throttle bodies and good exhaust on a standard engine 175 bhp is just about on the cards and tractability will of course still be perfect. The head has quite a bit of scope for improvement, mainly on the shortside bend of the port and about 10 to 15 bhp can be picked up with porting mods.
The standard cams are fairly mild so again there's good scope for extra power without losing too much bottom end grunt. About 15 to 20 bhp with good town driveability and more if some low rpm power below 3000 rpm is sacrificed.
So adding it all up 200 to 210 bhp can be had and still be a very road driveable engine with a rev band up to about 7500 rpm. The standard bottom end will be ok at that although the 8mm rod bolts are the weak link. However the pistons and rods are fairly light so they aren't that badly stressed. The ARP ones add a bit more safety margin but I'd only bother on a race engine that's going to spend a lot of time at those revs.
Dave Baker
The later solid lifter engine has 1mm bigger inlet and exhaust valves, 33mm & 29mm compared to the hydraulic lifter engine's 32mm & 28mm. It isn't rated at a higher bhp as standard but it certainly has more potential. The most restrictive thing on it is the exhaust manifold which bends up and then back down very abruptly and saps 15 bhp. Replacing that with the ST170 tubular manifold gives you 142 to 145 bhp. The full ST170 system is worth another few bhp and the ST170 inlet system maybe 5 more again.
The true output of an ST170 is nowhere near 170 bhp. That was just a marketing figure. 155 bhp is a more representative number so you can get pretty close to that on a base engine with just the manifold, a decent exhaust system and a few tweaks to the inlet. The standard air intake isn't ideal.
With throttle bodies and good exhaust on a standard engine 175 bhp is just about on the cards and tractability will of course still be perfect. The head has quite a bit of scope for improvement, mainly on the shortside bend of the port and about 10 to 15 bhp can be picked up with porting mods.
The standard cams are fairly mild so again there's good scope for extra power without losing too much bottom end grunt. About 15 to 20 bhp with good town driveability and more if some low rpm power below 3000 rpm is sacrificed.
So adding it all up 200 to 210 bhp can be had and still be a very road driveable engine with a rev band up to about 7500 rpm. The standard bottom end will be ok at that although the 8mm rod bolts are the weak link. However the pistons and rods are fairly light so they aren't that badly stressed. The ARP ones add a bit more safety margin but I'd only bother on a race engine that's going to spend a lot of time at those revs.
Dave Baker
Pumaracing said:
Mr2Mike said:
If the Zetec fits then you should be able to fit a 20XE. Then 200bhp is merely a set of throttle bodies and a well designed exhaust manifold away.
Not a chance. A standard XE, like the later Zetec with the same 33mm inlet valves, will show about 175, maybe just 180 bhp with TBs and a decent exhaust on accurate rollers. Add the 5 to 10 bhp most rolling roads read high and 185 bhp isn't an unusual figure but it doesn't really exist. It takes headwork and/or cams to get anywhere near a true 200 bhp on either engine although it isn't difficult to get.Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
The standard valve size for the 2.0L Zetec is 32mm BTW.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Saturday 11th October 23:16
Mr2Mike said:
Pumaracing said:
Mr2Mike said:
If the Zetec fits then you should be able to fit a 20XE. Then 200bhp is merely a set of throttle bodies and a well designed exhaust manifold away.
Not a chance. A standard XE, like the later Zetec with the same 33mm inlet valves, will show about 175, maybe just 180 bhp with TBs and a decent exhaust on accurate rollers. Add the 5 to 10 bhp most rolling roads read high and 185 bhp isn't an unusual figure but it doesn't really exist. It takes headwork and/or cams to get anywhere near a true 200 bhp on either engine although it isn't difficult to get.Dave Baker
Puma Race Engines
The standard valve size for the 2.0L Zetec is 32mm BTW.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Saturday 11th October 23:16
Finally, the valve sizes for 2L Zetec engines are exactly as I describe in detail in my post above. 32mm inlets for the hydraulic lifter engine and 33mm for the later solid lifter one. The ST170 has 33.5mm ones btw.
LotusNova said:
shirt said:
something to think about in the winter months
Phil,Let me know if & when you're seriously interested. They won't do a small volume production run, so lead time depends on # orders (I'm looking at Q1 next year for my project).
Thanks,
Jon.
have got a few potential projects running round my head but this one keeps popping out at the top. however it does depend on my succesful completion/sale of my house so it'll be a case of suck it and see nearer the time [prob q2 next year]. i may even be living in france by then!
Pumaracing said:
informative posts
puma, you obviously know your stuff. what is your opinion on supercharging the zetec using the lysholm 1200? what sort of bhp gains would be realised and what would you say would be the limit you would aim for whilst keeping things drivable?would tuning the zetec to 200bhp as you describe + supercharging be a good idea???
cheers,
phil.
Pumaracing said:
Supercharging is not really my thing. Someone else will have to answer questions on those.
no probs, cheers for your posts anyway.don't fancy a turbo. if i'm going through the expense of building an engine the way i want it, 'charging is the only forced induction i'll consider.
shirt said:
don't fancy a turbo. if i'm going through the expense of building an engine the way i want it, 'charging is the only forced induction i'll consider.
Seconded (personally, it's twin-screw or nothing).Quite apart from all the logical arguments, I just love the sound they make.
I know Paul Stephens has (had?) a DARE UK G4 racer recently with a well sorted Zetek engine claiming it made around 230bhp (no idea what the real figure is) - but the G4s always run TBs, dry sump, flowed heads, etc, etc... e.g. a LOT of work goes into their race engines and I have no idea of shelf life.
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