Turbocharging a Rover V8
Discussion
Ive seen a couple of twin turbo Rover V8's on the web, and although i understand the concept of turbocharging i do not understand the fine details on how you would actually go about retrofitting turbos to a N/A car.
I'm only 20 but at some point may like to take on a project like this, but at the moment am just interested in learning more about the techniques and ideas behind it.
Are there any interesting online resources or books that anybody could recommend for a bit of light reading?
I'm only 20 but at some point may like to take on a project like this, but at the moment am just interested in learning more about the techniques and ideas behind it.
Are there any interesting online resources or books that anybody could recommend for a bit of light reading?
Corky Bell's books are good - I've got the supercharged! one, but "Maximum Boost" is about turbocharging.
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-E...
He gives a pretty thorough treatment of things, all the calculations and stuff. Worth a read just for interest.
http://www.amazon.com/Maximum-Boost-Turbocharger-E...
He gives a pretty thorough treatment of things, all the calculations and stuff. Worth a read just for interest.
I've documented my twin turbo install on a 350 chevy here . The corky bell book is a good start, but doesn't cover much if anything about fuel injection.
If you are staying with EFI (highly reccomended) - you are best replacing the Lucas unit with a Megasquirt or similar. There are plenty of people who have had success with boosted rover v8's.
If you are staying with EFI (highly reccomended) - you are best replacing the Lucas unit with a Megasquirt or similar. There are plenty of people who have had success with boosted rover v8's.
eliot said:
stevieturbo said:
I'd say probably dont waste your time with online resources, as far too many of them are FOS.
Thanks for that stevie...
But you know what I mean. There is of course some very good info out there online....if you are able to filter the good stuff from the bad. Which itself requires that you already have a decent working knowledge.
The problem is, there is about twenty times as much BS out there.
But one thing is for sure....the Keep it Simple approach is always a good one for a first project.
You need to make some choices:
Low boost (<10psi) - Standard engine (more like 5-6 psi on std rover v8)
Moderate Boost (>10psi) - Modified engine
High Boost (>20 psi) - Highly modified engine
Low boost is easiest and cheapest because you don’t need to open the engine up and can use much of the standard supporting components – such as fuel pump, regulator, injectors, radiators etc.
The other options deliver more power, but require forged pistons and better rotating assemblies, bigger fuel pumps, bigger injectors, bigger rads, stronger transmissions and so on.
Low boost sounds boring, but you will be surprised how a few pounds of boost makes such a difference.
Next you need to select your turbos and decide on twins or singles. If purchasing brand new turbos – it will be cheaper to purchase a single unit rather than a pair, but if using “junk yard” turbos – you will find a pair of turbos from a 2L car pretty easily.
Once selected fabricate a manifold, sort the intercooling out. Don’t skip intercooling – many people say you can on low boost, but in my case I was seeing inlet temps around 90’c - combined with 9.25:1 compression leads to detonation.
Then you need to think about fueling and ignition. A boosted engine will require extra fuel (because its producing more power) and a richer mixture to cool the mixture down to avoid detonation. You ignition needs to be retarded as your boost comes in. A rough guide would be around 1’ timing per pound of boost – Sorting that out on the Lucas ECU is difficult, so you need to go aftermarket IMO.
I would approach it like this:
1)Get the engine/car
2)Convert the Lucas ECU to megasquirt or similar and get the fuel and ignition mapped normally aspirated.(You will need a wideband lambda as well)
3) select turbos and fabricate the manifolds etc
4) Remap it for boost. Start at very low boost, say a couple of psi and gradually increase your boost and map the new areas as you enter them
Read this thread Here where I have plotted some compressor maps for a Single, Twin a and Quad turbo 3.9 Rover V8!
Low boost (<10psi) - Standard engine (more like 5-6 psi on std rover v8)
Moderate Boost (>10psi) - Modified engine
High Boost (>20 psi) - Highly modified engine
Low boost is easiest and cheapest because you don’t need to open the engine up and can use much of the standard supporting components – such as fuel pump, regulator, injectors, radiators etc.
The other options deliver more power, but require forged pistons and better rotating assemblies, bigger fuel pumps, bigger injectors, bigger rads, stronger transmissions and so on.
Low boost sounds boring, but you will be surprised how a few pounds of boost makes such a difference.
Next you need to select your turbos and decide on twins or singles. If purchasing brand new turbos – it will be cheaper to purchase a single unit rather than a pair, but if using “junk yard” turbos – you will find a pair of turbos from a 2L car pretty easily.
Once selected fabricate a manifold, sort the intercooling out. Don’t skip intercooling – many people say you can on low boost, but in my case I was seeing inlet temps around 90’c - combined with 9.25:1 compression leads to detonation.
Then you need to think about fueling and ignition. A boosted engine will require extra fuel (because its producing more power) and a richer mixture to cool the mixture down to avoid detonation. You ignition needs to be retarded as your boost comes in. A rough guide would be around 1’ timing per pound of boost – Sorting that out on the Lucas ECU is difficult, so you need to go aftermarket IMO.
I would approach it like this:
1)Get the engine/car
2)Convert the Lucas ECU to megasquirt or similar and get the fuel and ignition mapped normally aspirated.(You will need a wideband lambda as well)
3) select turbos and fabricate the manifolds etc
4) Remap it for boost. Start at very low boost, say a couple of psi and gradually increase your boost and map the new areas as you enter them
Read this thread Here where I have plotted some compressor maps for a Single, Twin a and Quad turbo 3.9 Rover V8!
Resurrecting my old thread here 
So a little update over the last 5 years, the car has been sold, a house bought and the car bought back! It is now running Megasquirt fuel and ignition and plans are afoot to turbocharge it over the coming winter!
I have decided on single turbo due to ease of installation, but do not know whether to modify my existing stainless y-piece, buy a ready made manifold or a 'kit'. I think I would rather do it myself as the £3000+ for the kits seem a little excessive to me especially since the majority of it is inter cooler pipework and a no-name turbo (plus r&d costs obviously). At least if I do it myself I can choose what I want but will obviously take more time.
Any new tips or tricks, people to talk to?
So a little update over the last 5 years, the car has been sold, a house bought and the car bought back! It is now running Megasquirt fuel and ignition and plans are afoot to turbocharge it over the coming winter!
I have decided on single turbo due to ease of installation, but do not know whether to modify my existing stainless y-piece, buy a ready made manifold or a 'kit'. I think I would rather do it myself as the £3000+ for the kits seem a little excessive to me especially since the majority of it is inter cooler pipework and a no-name turbo (plus r&d costs obviously). At least if I do it myself I can choose what I want but will obviously take more time.
Any new tips or tricks, people to talk to?
If you can modify existing, that will by far be the easiest.
Just make sure the pipework if long, isnt carrying all the weight of the turbo, try and support the weight as much as possible, and also allow room for expansion in the system.
And it really doesnt need to look pretty at all for it to be very effective.
Just make sure the pipework if long, isnt carrying all the weight of the turbo, try and support the weight as much as possible, and also allow room for expansion in the system.
And it really doesnt need to look pretty at all for it to be very effective.
I think a new cast manifold might be a bit excessive since I have this currently fitted to the car which looks ripe for cutting in half and welding a flange to, is it something you have made before then?
It might help if i knew what turbo I would be fitting though, I have started reading up on the subject but it is very daunting
ETA
- Hint Hint* tell me what I need to buy
Edited by AceOfHearts on Tuesday 6th October 20:05
If you could that would be good for a measure up and I will let you know what I find.
I have just gone through the Garrett boost advisor on their website and that is coming out as a GT2871R, GT3071R or GT3076R
Does this sound like the right ballpark to you guys? What other good branded turbos would also be of an equivalent size? I want to avoid cheap Chinese stuff really.
There seems to be a lot of options, I assume it is a bit like camshaft choice and there is never one 'right' answer
I have just gone through the Garrett boost advisor on their website and that is coming out as a GT2871R, GT3071R or GT3076R
Does this sound like the right ballpark to you guys? What other good branded turbos would also be of an equivalent size? I want to avoid cheap Chinese stuff really.
There seems to be a lot of options, I assume it is a bit like camshaft choice and there is never one 'right' answer
AceOfHearts said:
If you could that would be good for a measure up and I will let you know what I find.
I have just gone through the Garrett boost advisor on their website and that is coming out as a GT2871R, GT3071R or GT3076R
Does this sound like the right ballpark to you guys? What other good branded turbos would also be of an equivalent size? I want to avoid cheap Chinese stuff really.
There seems to be a lot of options, I assume it is a bit like camshaft choice and there is never one 'right' answer
IMO the way TVR's manifolds are, they're just begging for a turbo up there !!I have just gone through the Garrett boost advisor on their website and that is coming out as a GT2871R, GT3071R or GT3076R
Does this sound like the right ballpark to you guys? What other good branded turbos would also be of an equivalent size? I want to avoid cheap Chinese stuff really.
There seems to be a lot of options, I assume it is a bit like camshaft choice and there is never one 'right' answer
As for which turbo...really depends on power goals, engine size etc etc. There really are dozens if not hundreds of options these days when it comes to turbos. And some of the chinese stuff can be worth the risk if it's a very very budget build.
I'd always opt for branded units myself, but the chinese stuff does seem to work these days and last quite well.
On the other hand its money you may throw away with a Chinese turbo.
I was recently supplied by a customer a new core for a PD engine, I took it out of the box and spun it, the compressor wheel was wobbling all over the place.
The customer then got a 2nd hand turbo and it was fine.
2nd hand carries its own risks as it may need more than just a rebuilb but a dead 2nd hand turbo is good for mock ups.
But a lot of Chinese stuff has come a long way, rods are a good example, they are pretty decent these days, but again still the occasional garbage.
I was recently supplied by a customer a new core for a PD engine, I took it out of the box and spun it, the compressor wheel was wobbling all over the place.
The customer then got a 2nd hand turbo and it was fine.
2nd hand carries its own risks as it may need more than just a rebuilb but a dead 2nd hand turbo is good for mock ups.
But a lot of Chinese stuff has come a long way, rods are a good example, they are pretty decent these days, but again still the occasional garbage.
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