\zetec - Silvertop/black top
Discussion
I have a 2litre silvertop fitted into my 7 at the mo, which has just cried 'Enough', There are brand spanking new Black tops for sale on ebay for 600 or so notes, I was wondering whether the Blacktop was a straight swop for my Silvertop - Anyone know??
I have TB's and emerald ignition ATM so these need to be re-usable on the new Blacktop installation
I have TB's and emerald ignition ATM so these need to be re-usable on the new Blacktop installation
I have just done the same.
The sump & pickup is a straight swap - do you need low line sump? Fan belt different as water pump is external. No water temp take off on the thermostat housing - I swapped stats, but the black top stat is at the front of the engine on the inlet side. The manifold ports are a lot larger than the silver top - for best results enlarge the inlet & exhaust manifolds to suit.
Fitted to my kit car, it started on half a turn of the engine!! I have only driven the car once since it has been installed - Pembrey. The fuelling map increased the injection by 10% at the top of the scale. But the car ran very well. Do you have a self learning management (Lambda Sensor)? If not may require setting up (cant remember if you said carbs or injection, sorry).
A better option may be the St170 engine. Its the same money although it'l be a second hand engine. Has VVT & a touch more power.
The sump & pickup is a straight swap - do you need low line sump? Fan belt different as water pump is external. No water temp take off on the thermostat housing - I swapped stats, but the black top stat is at the front of the engine on the inlet side. The manifold ports are a lot larger than the silver top - for best results enlarge the inlet & exhaust manifolds to suit.
Fitted to my kit car, it started on half a turn of the engine!! I have only driven the car once since it has been installed - Pembrey. The fuelling map increased the injection by 10% at the top of the scale. But the car ran very well. Do you have a self learning management (Lambda Sensor)? If not may require setting up (cant remember if you said carbs or injection, sorry).
A better option may be the St170 engine. Its the same money although it'l be a second hand engine. Has VVT & a touch more power.
KevP
thanks for reply
I have Retro ford water rail & custom sump at the mo, which I need to use.
I use a 1800 flywheel, and 2litre DOHC sierra clutch.
I was told that the Blacktop was taller than silvertop do you know whetehr this is true? The installation is tight so any additional engine height may be a problem.
will the silvertop cam cover fit on the blacktop engine?
Thanks for your help
Mal
thanks for reply
I have Retro ford water rail & custom sump at the mo, which I need to use.
I use a 1800 flywheel, and 2litre DOHC sierra clutch.
I was told that the Blacktop was taller than silvertop do you know whetehr this is true? The installation is tight so any additional engine height may be a problem.
will the silvertop cam cover fit on the blacktop engine?
Thanks for your help
Mal
I don't believe the black top is any taller. Most issues are going to be the front pulley system. Make sure you use the 1800cc inlet manifold plastic spacer gasket and not the 2 ltr EGR style. My black top with throttle bodies, a reasonable exhaust and emerald ecu made 182 bhp at Emerald, so can be a cost effective upgrade. Have a look at Robin Hood cars. they were selling crated engines. Mate got a complete engine for less than £600 including injectors, inlet manifold and plenum ( although that goes back on ebay) for his westie build just a few weeks ago...............
Does the Blacktop need the same 1800cc waterpump as the silvertop for RWD installation.
Is the Oil filter in the same place as on Silvertop?
Are the engine mount points in the same place?
do you have the phone number or email address of Robin Hood where your mate bought the blacktop from?
they don't have a website
Thanks for the help.
Is the Oil filter in the same place as on Silvertop?
Are the engine mount points in the same place?
do you have the phone number or email address of Robin Hood where your mate bought the blacktop from?
they don't have a website
Thanks for the help.
I'll give my mate a call. You cannot change the pump, it is independant and different to the silvertop and runs on the auxilary belt and not the cambelt. You will need to utilise a roller kit to compensate for the air con compressor removal. Kits from retroford etc or any kitcar maker. Plenty of info around for changing this.
Black top is same height.
Oil filter in same position but I think the angle is different.
Water pump is different. As the original blacktop installation would have either or both AC & power steering the fan belt needs sorting. My water pump is now running backwards. I ran a silvertop with a backwards running water pump for over 10 years, including sprinting, trackdays & touring, no problem.
Engine mounts are the same (almost). Mine seems to sit 20mm further back. I had to re drill 1 hole in the mounting plate IIRC.
Dont know about the inlet gasket. I just bolted my TB straight on. Although as I said it is not a perfect match at the moment. I will be running the car in the same condition at Castle Combe this Saturday.
Supplier http://www.kitpartsdirect.com/ their ebay add http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ford-zetec-engine-brand-new-...
Oil filter in same position but I think the angle is different.
Water pump is different. As the original blacktop installation would have either or both AC & power steering the fan belt needs sorting. My water pump is now running backwards. I ran a silvertop with a backwards running water pump for over 10 years, including sprinting, trackdays & touring, no problem.
Engine mounts are the same (almost). Mine seems to sit 20mm further back. I had to re drill 1 hole in the mounting plate IIRC.
Dont know about the inlet gasket. I just bolted my TB straight on. Although as I said it is not a perfect match at the moment. I will be running the car in the same condition at Castle Combe this Saturday.
Supplier http://www.kitpartsdirect.com/ their ebay add http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ford-zetec-engine-brand-new-...
KevP
Thanks for the detailed reply:-
I thought the Oil filter mount looked different, though I use an escort zetec oil pump because of the different angle of the Filter output flange.
The waterpump and belt arrangement also looks different, which means sadly that I'm gonna have to stick with a Silvertop engine, otherwise I'd have extensive mods to make to enable the new Blacktop to fit
The area around my oil filter mount is crammed with stuff on my installation [Alternator, Oil pressure switch. steering column, and the aforementioned oil filter take off plate] all fighting for the small amount of space available.
Thanks for your help
Mal
ps
Anyone know of a good [or new] 2 litre Silvertop engine for sale?
Thanks for the detailed reply:-
I thought the Oil filter mount looked different, though I use an escort zetec oil pump because of the different angle of the Filter output flange.
The waterpump and belt arrangement also looks different, which means sadly that I'm gonna have to stick with a Silvertop engine, otherwise I'd have extensive mods to make to enable the new Blacktop to fit
The area around my oil filter mount is crammed with stuff on my installation [Alternator, Oil pressure switch. steering column, and the aforementioned oil filter take off plate] all fighting for the small amount of space available.
Thanks for your help
Mal
ps
Anyone know of a good [or new] 2 litre Silvertop engine for sale?
Mal
Surprised you feel that the blacktop wont fit. My alternator, oil pressure switch & steering also pass through the same zone, but all fit ok. I dont have an oil take off though. What car & why the oil take off, is it for a cooler? If so do you really need it?
I did have to alter the alternator bracket as I used my old unit.
Surprised you feel that the blacktop wont fit. My alternator, oil pressure switch & steering also pass through the same zone, but all fit ok. I dont have an oil take off though. What car & why the oil take off, is it for a cooler? If so do you really need it?
I did have to alter the alternator bracket as I used my old unit.
KevP
My car is an S4, I guess that means there's less room in an S4 engine bay than a S3.
the Oil filter plate is there to remotely mount the oil filter on the bulkhead, there's no possibility of fitting the oil filter on the engine, It's so tight that the oil plate has to be in a certain position otherwise it fouls the steering column. I too had to make a alternator mount bracket the retro ford one i bought moved the alternator too far away from the block which foul the chassis rail
Unfortunately the silvertop is a striaght swap, whilst it maybe possible to fit a blacktop the work involved eliminiates the possibility.
Thanks for your help
Mal
My car is an S4, I guess that means there's less room in an S4 engine bay than a S3.
the Oil filter plate is there to remotely mount the oil filter on the bulkhead, there's no possibility of fitting the oil filter on the engine, It's so tight that the oil plate has to be in a certain position otherwise it fouls the steering column. I too had to make a alternator mount bracket the retro ford one i bought moved the alternator too far away from the block which foul the chassis rail
Unfortunately the silvertop is a striaght swap, whilst it maybe possible to fit a blacktop the work involved eliminiates the possibility.
Thanks for your help
Mal
JustinS
I already have the shortest belt possible on the alternator, the Retro ford mount moved the body of the alternator too far away from the engine block, which fouled the steering column.
Unless the renault 5 oil filter is less than 25mm thick/tall it'll foul my steering column too.
Mal
I already have the shortest belt possible on the alternator, the Retro ford mount moved the body of the alternator too far away from the engine block, which fouled the steering column.
Unless the renault 5 oil filter is less than 25mm thick/tall it'll foul my steering column too.
Mal
With mine, the alternator was solidly mounted to the block and had a sliding adjuster near the top of the nearside engine, which took up the slack. It was a fiesta alternator which was pretty small,if I find a piccie, I will post it up. although little denso ones from Bedford Rascal vans are pretty compact to get in there. As for the filter, that is a squeeze, good luck with that !!!
Bought another 2 Litre Silvertop - £80 from local breakers [it came complete with spare Coilpack, injectors, all senders/switches/wiring loom and ally sump
and I heard it running B4 parting with the cash so it's a good 'un.
All I have to do now is strip it Rebuild with the custom bits and re-fit into the 7 - sorted
>
Just thinking about it again £80 for 155BHP has to be somewhat of a bargin'
and I heard it running B4 parting with the cash so it's a good 'un.All I have to do now is strip it Rebuild with the custom bits and re-fit into the 7 - sorted
>
Just thinking about it again £80 for 155BHP has to be somewhat of a bargin'
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