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ARAF

11,568 posts

92 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Excellent. That's really cleaned those screws up nicely. hehe

After_Shock

7,760 posts

89 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
With regards to amount to inject bear in mind the SC will just vapourise nearly all of it unless pumping massive amounts in so adjusting the tune probably wont be needed.

All you doing is cooling the intake by directly cooling the SC. If running a centri or a turbo as it goes after the heat problem then yes re-tuning would be needed.

Big thing is dont map the car to use the water/meth injection as if the system fails engine might go bang.

Gary H 2008

Original Poster:

2,270 posts

58 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Exactly

I'm now pushing the 122 as far as it'll go.

I have the slightest hint of knock at 6K when the car gets hot and under WOT - literally less than a degree, otherwise everything is peachy.

I wont be advancing the timing anymore (even with the injection) so really just looking at reducing the AIT dramatically - I just feel it'll be a sensible thing to do.

After_Shock

7,760 posts

89 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Gary H 2008 said:
Exactly

I'm now pushing the 122 as far as it'll go.

I have the slightest hint of knock at 6K when the car gets hot and under WOT - literally less than a degree, otherwise everything is peachy.

I wont be advancing the timing anymore (even with the injection) so really just looking at reducing the AIT dramatically - I just feel it'll be a sensible thing to do.
Thought you had a TVS! Whats the current set up with the 122?

If purely after cooling just inject water, Global-i got excellent results doing just that at T/R on a very hot day so id forget about the meth, unless doing something like T/R again or Vmax as the extra octane or two wont go down badly.

Gary H 2008

Original Poster:

2,270 posts

58 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Bog standard Bathurst S spec on an LS2 with an LSV8 Power Map. Stock Cams, Stock Manifolds

I'm waiting for the timing confirmations but I'm pretty sure I was trapping 10mph faster than the other two Bathurst S's at TR.
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After_Shock

7,760 posts

89 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Gary H 2008 said:
Bog standard Bathurst S spec on an LS2 with an LSV8 Power Map. Stock Cams, Stock Manifolds
So is that 6 or 9psi pulley on the Batty spec?

Gary H 2008

Original Poster:

2,270 posts

58 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
7 I'm pretty sure

ringram

12,212 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
After_Shock said:
With regards to amount to inject bear in mind the SC will just vapourise nearly all of it unless pumping massive amounts in so adjusting the tune probably wont be needed.

All you doing is cooling the intake by directly cooling the SC. If running a centri or a turbo as it goes after the heat problem then yes re-tuning would be needed.

Big thing is dont map the car to use the water/meth injection as if the system fails engine might go bang.
Depends where the intake temp probe is. Before or after the injection. Obviously you want the temp probe to pick up temps after injection.

ArnieVXR

1,040 posts

52 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
And before you rush to buy yourself litres of methanol to store in your garage or pour into some resevoir in your boot, just remember how toxic the substance is:
>>> 10ml causes permanent blindness (destroys the optic nerve)
>>> 30ml will kill you
>>> metabolises into formic acid, which wrecks your body
>>> etc
>>> etc

Ingestion can be via drinking it (doh), touching it or breathing it in.

I'd try water injection myself...

And finally, if it catches fire it burns invisibly and produces no smoke, unlike water which doesn't catch fire when stored in your garage.

(IIRC Methylated spirits is Ethanol with a bit of Methanol in it)

ringram

12,212 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Summary: FI is bad for your car and your health biggrin

MadMaxHSV

1,661 posts

67 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
ArnieVXR said:
And finally, if it catches fire it burns invisibly and produces no smoke, unlike water which doesn't catch fire when stored in your garage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caA8GueQymohehe

merdock

493 posts

29 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
ArnieVXR said:
And before you rush to buy yourself litres of methanol to store in your garage or pour into some resevoir in your boot, just remember how toxic the substance is:
>>> 10ml causes permanent blindness (destroys the optic nerve)
>>> 30ml will kill you
>>> metabolises into formic acid, which wrecks your body
>>> etc
>>> etc

Ingestion can be via drinking it (doh), touching it or breathing it in.

I'd try water injection myself...

And finally, if it catches fire it burns invisibly and produces no smoke, unlike water which doesn't catch fire when stored in your garage.

(IIRC Methylated spirits is Ethanol with a bit of Methanol in it)


Nice stuff,
this must be why fighters used it in WW2 life expectancy woz so short it did not matter.

After_Shock

7,760 posts

89 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
As I said in a previous post you must be very carefull with it.

Pouring it on the ground and hitting it with a hammer will easily ignite it, signals off mobiles can also cause it to burn.

Very very naughty stuff and if you have kids id seriously think twice about having it laid about.

Ive got mine stored in a brick built out house, inside an unused chest freezer and stored in UN approved corrosive liquid containers, oh and only ive got the key for it.

However if you want to poison anyone, bit of it in a bottle of vodka would work a treat, only joking!!

ringram

12,212 posts

117 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
MadMaxHSV said:
ArnieVXR said:
And finally, if it catches fire it burns invisibly and produces no smoke, unlike water which doesn't catch fire when stored in your garage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caA8GueQymohehe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku7TdLeEGsQ&feature=related


ArnieVXR

1,040 posts

52 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
ringram said:
Summary: FI is bad for your car and your health biggrin
And wallet

And ego when some NA guy beats you on the standing quarter

stevieturbo

8,369 posts

116 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
007 VXR said:
Can i ask, why you need a retune?
As others have suggested. Using WI can achieve various things depending on how you use it.

In low volume 100% water injection setups minimal re-tuning is needed, especially if it's only for safety. But often doing so can see a loss of power. But it will see cooler temps, and a much safer engine. Again this will vary from setup to setup.
But using it will often allow more timing and to run leaner mixtures, which will then see a restoration of power, or possible gain in power...and safely too.

Again, it is all very dependant on setup, boost used, compression ratio, intercooling, fuel used etc etc etc
And of course the amount of water used. I already covered it all before in other threads.

Add the poisonous methanol to the mix, and tuning becomes more critical. Simply dumping water or meth in and doing nothing else will not yield more power. But re-tuning taking into account the added octane, chamber cooling, charge cooling etc etc will yield more power.
But again, that's down to how good or bad your base setup was in the first place.

If your intake temps were good, your engine not knock limited in any way, then using WI is a bit pointless. Few engines fall into this category though.

And again...yes pure methanol is very poisonous. Never ever ingest it, and even skin contact is bad. Wash off immediately. It does also burn with an almost invisible flame. Certainly invisible in daylight.
But it is extinguished with water safely unlike petrol.

Indy cars run on methanol, and I think some speedway motorbikes run on it.

And it's much cheaper in 40gal drums than in small 20litre containers.





wormus

4,848 posts

72 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
Of course you could add a bigger/more efficient blower or turn your boost down.

007 VXR

51,415 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
wormus said:
Of course you could add a bigger/more efficient blower or turn your boost down. biggrin
laugh only going to 8psi smile

wormus

4,848 posts

72 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
007 VXR said:
wormus said:
Of course you could add a bigger/more efficient blower or turn your boost down.


laugh only going to 8psi


That's why I suggest you don't need it. My guess is you are right in the "sweet spot" for your blower!

Boosted LS1

13,451 posts

129 months

[news] 
Wednesday 30th May 2012 quote quote all
I've used home made WI systems with good results. IAT's plummet really quickly. I also used a simple Edlebrock set up which was load and rpm sensitive. It was pretty decent but unsophisticated. It's obsolete these days, lol. A friend used meths and one sunny day after a bit of boost he saw the bonnet of his car buckling and the paint blistering. The invisible fire wrote his car off. I'll stick to water.
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