Discussion
some good points there black vxr.. I had the same issue with my last car ,thought about it for ages, and didn't go ahead
wished I had when it was too late.
the systems have got more efficient and reliable .my 9 year old van system and the new one on the Ro and like chalk and cheese.
as far as costs are concerned you would have saved approx. 9-10 pence per mile. so a lot of money btw.
I have the large boot model and the tank sits proud by about 40 mm. so im going to have to make a new boot floor with steps in it .
ive heard of a few Ro's and im from a bmw back ground all with plastic manifolds and never heard of a failure.
as far as costs are concerned because it burns so cleanly my van passes its mot without a cat btw, I think it will be cheaper for a while.
normally I pay 68-70 p per litre , but my 1st tank full was at 59.9 at a local to the installer garage.
so even bigger savings for this tank full
wished I had when it was too late.
the systems have got more efficient and reliable .my 9 year old van system and the new one on the Ro and like chalk and cheese.
as far as costs are concerned you would have saved approx. 9-10 pence per mile. so a lot of money btw.
I have the large boot model and the tank sits proud by about 40 mm. so im going to have to make a new boot floor with steps in it .
ive heard of a few Ro's and im from a bmw back ground all with plastic manifolds and never heard of a failure.
as far as costs are concerned because it burns so cleanly my van passes its mot without a cat btw, I think it will be cheaper for a while.
normally I pay 68-70 p per litre , but my 1st tank full was at 59.9 at a local to the installer garage.
so even bigger savings for this tank full
I think £100 return per a thousand miles is a fair breakeven point.
As for the switchover time, nothing to be proud of. It shouldn't be switching this early. It's fine on warm engine, but a killer to the reducers (I am assuming you have got two) and the membranes inside them when on cold. Two minutes at cold or temperature dependent is a much safer setting.
What make ECU, injectors and reducers have you got? What model?
As for the switchover time, nothing to be proud of. It shouldn't be switching this early. It's fine on warm engine, but a killer to the reducers (I am assuming you have got two) and the membranes inside them when on cold. Two minutes at cold or temperature dependent is a much safer setting.
What make ECU, injectors and reducers have you got? What model?
Think I typically drive for about 2 miles before it switches on mine, enough time for the temp needle to get to its normal half way mark, and the water loop to get nice and toasty around the vapouriser. I have heard of systems switching from cold but not seen one in the flesh.
Like the filler position, neat alternative to the hole in the side of the rear bumper.
Like the filler position, neat alternative to the hole in the side of the rear bumper.
@djwilk. I will be asking about the changeover time. he did mention approx. 1 minute .
its a dual reducer I think. 1 item 2 pipes going to injectors.
its not all the same brand. I don't know the exact makes though
when I spoke to him he told me benefits etc of certain items., not all one brand
@blue666uk... I was impressed by the filler location. I told him no holes in bodywork but bumper if it has to be
its a dual reducer I think. 1 item 2 pipes going to injectors.
its not all the same brand. I don't know the exact makes though
when I spoke to him he told me benefits etc of certain items., not all one brand
@blue666uk... I was impressed by the filler location. I told him no holes in bodywork but bumper if it has to be
maccavvy said:
ive spoke to the installer today and he says it is a bit short.
he is going to set it at 2 mins. everything is adjustable via pc link
it would have to be a high kerb to hit it . but its a risk ill have to take.
id rather it not be cut in the body or be unsymettrical
I think you'll get ticked off with having to get on your knees, in a wet filling station, to tank-up.he is going to set it at 2 mins. everything is adjustable via pc link
it would have to be a high kerb to hit it . but its a risk ill have to take.
id rather it not be cut in the body or be unsymettrical
Edited by ARAF on Tuesday 19th August 22:32
Hi, I'm Simon from LPGC - I converted the above red Monaro to LPG.
I have asked the owner if he'd mind me joining this forum, identifying myself, discussing his conversion on the forum etc, he said no problem.. I wouldn't just jump on a customer's thread and/or start talking about someone else' vehicle without their permission!
I regard all Monaro engines as being very straight forward to convert properly to LPG. The tank install on this 2004 year Monaro is a little more complicated than on other similar vehicles because the spare wheel well (where most customers prefer the tank to be installed) is directly on top of the petrol tank and has a lip to the rear which protrudes into the wheel well area thus preventing the fitting of a tank which is the full height and diameter of the greater part of the spare wheel well. If a customer wants a tank in the spare wheel well on a Monaro they can decide on a tank which is the full diameter of the lower half of the spare wheel well but not the full height (only 54L), or a tank which protrudes above boot floor level (by about an inch and a half) but is narrow enough to clear the lip (71 Litres). Besides the above spare wheel tank options there is also the option of a spare wheel tank which isn't quite so tall so doesn't protrude quite so far into the spare wheel well for a little less capacity than 71 Litres, or the option of a cylinder tank mounted at the front of the boot area (not a popular option).
This customer chose the spare wheel tank with the largest capacity and specified that the conversion should be done with no holes in the bodywork, thus the low filler which simply bolts to existing petrol tank mountings and engine bay brackets that extend onto existing and easily replaced engine bay brackets. With the filler fitted at the rear there is the advantage that the vehicle can be refueled from either side of the vehicle so the owner is only half as likely to have to wait for an LPG pump to become available if there is a que at the garage. After the brief morning warm-up period (which yes needs to be extended to around a minute with a cold engine) the vehicle will start on gas if the engine is warm. Unlike some LPG installs I see on Monaro's and similar vehicles, this system does not need to use any petrol at full throttle - the components fitted are big enough to run the engine entirely on gas even at full power (some systems seem to be running on gas near full power but unknown to the driver do start to use petrol near full power).
As with most vehicle forums there seems to be a fair bit of confusion and misinformation on LPG related matters on this forum too.
I convert all types of vehicle but have developed a bit of a niche for myself in the industry in converting the performance, high power and supposedly 'difficult to convert' vehicles.
Happy to discuss anything vehicle LPG related.
Simon
I have asked the owner if he'd mind me joining this forum, identifying myself, discussing his conversion on the forum etc, he said no problem.. I wouldn't just jump on a customer's thread and/or start talking about someone else' vehicle without their permission!
I regard all Monaro engines as being very straight forward to convert properly to LPG. The tank install on this 2004 year Monaro is a little more complicated than on other similar vehicles because the spare wheel well (where most customers prefer the tank to be installed) is directly on top of the petrol tank and has a lip to the rear which protrudes into the wheel well area thus preventing the fitting of a tank which is the full height and diameter of the greater part of the spare wheel well. If a customer wants a tank in the spare wheel well on a Monaro they can decide on a tank which is the full diameter of the lower half of the spare wheel well but not the full height (only 54L), or a tank which protrudes above boot floor level (by about an inch and a half) but is narrow enough to clear the lip (71 Litres). Besides the above spare wheel tank options there is also the option of a spare wheel tank which isn't quite so tall so doesn't protrude quite so far into the spare wheel well for a little less capacity than 71 Litres, or the option of a cylinder tank mounted at the front of the boot area (not a popular option).
This customer chose the spare wheel tank with the largest capacity and specified that the conversion should be done with no holes in the bodywork, thus the low filler which simply bolts to existing petrol tank mountings and engine bay brackets that extend onto existing and easily replaced engine bay brackets. With the filler fitted at the rear there is the advantage that the vehicle can be refueled from either side of the vehicle so the owner is only half as likely to have to wait for an LPG pump to become available if there is a que at the garage. After the brief morning warm-up period (which yes needs to be extended to around a minute with a cold engine) the vehicle will start on gas if the engine is warm. Unlike some LPG installs I see on Monaro's and similar vehicles, this system does not need to use any petrol at full throttle - the components fitted are big enough to run the engine entirely on gas even at full power (some systems seem to be running on gas near full power but unknown to the driver do start to use petrol near full power).
As with most vehicle forums there seems to be a fair bit of confusion and misinformation on LPG related matters on this forum too.
I convert all types of vehicle but have developed a bit of a niche for myself in the industry in converting the performance, high power and supposedly 'difficult to convert' vehicles.
Happy to discuss anything vehicle LPG related.
Simon
Great post Simon,
Any way to reveal some information as to what components were used on the install?
As for the petrol switchover at WOT with some cars, it is only the installer and components used to blame. Some people offer cheap solutions by undersizing the components and they just can't deliver the required supply at WOT and what often happens a clever installer introduces the switchover option when setting up on the laptop. Not something I would recommend...
PS. I do not mean to offend anyone with my opinion.
PS2. Not an installer myself.
Any way to reveal some information as to what components were used on the install?
As for the petrol switchover at WOT with some cars, it is only the installer and components used to blame. Some people offer cheap solutions by undersizing the components and they just can't deliver the required supply at WOT and what often happens a clever installer introduces the switchover option when setting up on the laptop. Not something I would recommend...
PS. I do not mean to offend anyone with my opinion.
PS2. Not an installer myself.
Hi DJWilk,
Components under bonnet comprise:
Reducer... KME Gold HP rated at 380bhp. This was chosen for: A. Power / flow ability, B. Pressure range (0.9 - 1.4 bar), C. Pressure stability, D. Reliability, E. Physical properties which allow a neat job in this particular vehicle's engine bay - such as physical size, shape and the way all the hoses connect. Regarding those hoses - both the feed and return standard heater pipes on the vehicle come from the front driver side of the engine but there is a vacuum operated valve on the driver side inner wing which shuts of heater water flow to the cabin heater matrix if you set the heater to maximum aircon. If the reducer were mounted anywhere else on the vehicle then this would have to mean either longer heater pipes routed around the engine bay or for a need to disable that vacuum operated heater water shut-off valve. If the heater valve were disabled the aircon wouldn't work quite so well as designed, there is a reason why it is fitted! F, The reducer is more temperature stable than other similar spec reducers - at high gas flow the gas temp won't start to come down too low. If gas temp gets too low then injectors collect 'heavy ends' (bit of oil sometimes in gas which would remain a vapour at higher temps), also in severe cases and on a very cold day the gas can turn back into a liquid in the pipes to injector, pipes between injectors and manifold or in the manifold, not good! Some might question why reliability is only mentioned as late as D above, the simple answer is because LPG reducers are all generally reliable!
The reducer is fed by 8mm Faro pipe, has an 8mm inlet to the high flow solenoid / liquid gas filter. Reducer pressure is set at 1.4 bar and runs to..
OMVL injectors... These injectors were chosen because: A. They are extremely reliable, B. They will easily flow enough gas up to the red line at WOT on this engine without needing excessive pressure. C. They will work linearly down to around 3ms opening duration, so to get a smooth idle I didn't need to compromise on top end power by artificially lowering pressure or vice/versa for this vehicle. D. This is one of the few rail type injector designs where gas outlets are horizontal, the horizontal outlets mean the injectors will fit under the engine cover whilst still allowing similar and short pipe lengths to each 'spud' in the inlet manifold runners... They allow a neat job whilst not compromising on performance or life. If you ever see an LPG injector where the plunger shaft for the injector is mounted horizontally it means those injectors have been installed in the wrong orientation so the life of the injectors will be lowered and they won't meter gas quite as accurately as they could. The plunger shafts on these injectors are vertical while the gas outlets are horizontal), with this neat job the injectors won't suffer wear as quickly as other types of injector that might fit under the engine cover.
ECU: AEB 5/6/8 cylinder ECU. This one has a King badge on it. This ECU is almost exactly the same as other 5/6/8 cylinder ECUs wearing Allesi, Bigas, Emer, King, OMVL, Romano, Tartarini, Zavoli, etc badges. AEB make ECUs for all these 'boxed / branded' gas systems, the only difference is the software you need to calibrate them, but all the software for all the above looks and works almost exactly the same. You can unplug any of the above ECUs, plug in any other, calibrate it and it will work the same. The only other small difference between all the above is the injector choices you get when calibrating. When setting up an LPG ECU it needs to know what injectors are being used because all injectors need to be driven differently in an electrical sense - All injectors need to be opened with a high current pulse then held open with a much lower current. Different injectors need a different length initial high current pulse. I use King AEB ECUs because they allow use with the widest choice of injectors, e.g. most AEB ECUs don't have an 'OMVL injector' setting, and also the firmware on King allows a few more calibration options than others. Oh yes, Tartarini is a slight exception in that the main mapping screens are a little different and it uses a different switch inside the vehicle to all the others but they are still all easily interchangeable. The badge on the ECU is the thing most people think about when they talk about what LPG system they have but it is arguably the least important part of the whole system provided the injectors are 'linear' (in brief linear means quick to open and then measure gas accurately, so twice as long an electrical pulse equals twice as much gas injected) and the reducer is up to the job (reducer flow ability, pressure stability, heat stability). I usually use AEB ECU's for 8 cylinder vehicles because A. They are perhaps the most reliable ECU, B. They have been 'fully sequential' for a few years now(they wait until they receive what would be a petrol injection pulse instead of 'jumping the gun' and firing an LPG injector for an inappropriate length of time - previous to them being fully sequential I used other ECUs on certain V8 vehicles). C. The AD convertors in them are very good (they don't make the mistake of reacting to false fluctuations in temperature or pressure readings). D, They take pulse duration readings from the negative side of the petrol injectors and have the ability to switch on one LPG injector at a time (necessary for a smooth petrol to LPG changeover at low rpm without causing the engine to surge, also great for diagnosing injector issues at setup and maybe at some point way in the future). E, They allow 'petrol addition' (Petrol addition allows the vehicle to run on both LPG and petrol at the same time. By always selecting appropriate reducers / injectors for an install I never have to leave a vehicle with petrol addition enabled when I hand back to the customer, but the facility is great for diagnosing ignition related problems during initial setup because if a vehicle misfires when calibrating you might not otherwise immediately be able to tell if the misfire was caused by an ignition or a fueling issue, petrol is less demanding in terms of ignition systems). Not needed at any point whilst setting up this install. F, They allow 'extra injection filtering' - Some engines (not the Monaro) fire petrol injectors very briefly between the main petrol injection pulse (such as when the throttle is blipped). Since LPG ECUs work as a slave to the petrol ECU by interpreting petrol injection pulse duration, without this ability some LPG ECUs can get confused and measure the start of a very short pulse to the end of the long pulse which then vastly overfuels the engine and causes hesitation on hard acceleration. G. They can be set up to automatically start on has with a warm engine. H. They have advanced on board diagnostics. J, They can be connected to a vehicle OBD to read and react to fuel trims (not always a good idea but useful on certain vehicles such as supercharged RangeRovers and BMW Valvetronics). K, the temperature compensation can be adjusted. L, The RPM correction actually works properly unlike with most other ECUs.
On this install, at WOT throttle the gas pressure only falls by 0.2 bar from 1.4bar to 1.2bar with this reducer, and with the 3mm nozzles in the injectors the gas injection duration at WOT is almost exactly the same as the petrol injectors would be doing whilst keeping the mixture correct. Regards injection pulse duration think about this - An engine idling at 600rpm is an engine spinning 10 times a second. There are 1000ms in one second, so the idling engine takes 100ms to do spin 360degrees. The engine is a four stroke, so the injectors have 2 full rotations of the engine (200ms at idle) in which to open, inject fuel, and close again in time for the next injection cycle. At idle, then, the injectors have a 200ms window in which to complete this open/inject/close cycle. The Monaro engine is similar to most engines in that it will do just over 6000rpm. At 6000rpm that window is only one tenth as long as at 600rpm, so the window is only 20ms. If an installer sets up a vehicle so that the injectors need to be open for more than 20ms at 6000rpm at WOT this can only mean that the injectors cannot physically inject enough fuel for the engine... Either the injectors need to be fed with more gas pressure or the injector nozzles need to be wider to allow them to flow more gas when fed with the same pressure in order to put the same amount of gas in while open for less time - probably a combination of both. If the installer picks un-linear injectors then those injectors may take 4.5ms just to open, that 4.5ms comes out of inector flow time at both idle and full engine load, getting both a smooth idle and top end power while running on gas would be a miracle!
If I had fitted a branded boxed OMVL kit, the kit would have come with the same OMVL injectors that I fitted, with a very similar AEB ECU (albeit with an OMVL sticker on it instead of King), but it would have come with an OMVL reducer. OMVL reducers used to be good for high power applications because they would flow a lot of gas, up to about 400bhp. These days they have changed the internal design a little bit and they are now only rated at 280bhp but I see a lot of Monaros converted with OMVL branded boxed kits and the OMVL 280bhp reducer... On top of the reducer flow BHP rating / flow problem, OMVL reducers have never been pressure stable and the recent OMVL reducers are not pressure stable either - So even if the OMVL reducer would flow enough gas for the Monaro's BHP rating the pressure at idle would be maybe 1.8 bar (falling to the same 1.2 bar at full load as the KME Gold reducer) and the OMVL injectors would need to only pulse for say 2.9ms at idle to provide the correct amount of fuel for a smooth idle. This would put the injectors below there minimum injection linearity figure so I wouldn't have been able to get both a good idle and full throttle high rpm if I had fitted an OMVL reducer unless I fitted even more linear injecors such as MJ... But MJ injectors are nothing like as reliable as OMVL injectors...
I see a great many converted vehicles where the installer has not bothered to ensure that their install works at both extremes.. But many installers fit the same list of components on every vehicle that they convert without considering suitability for both the electronic and physical spec of the vehicle. Any installer can convert a 1.6 Astra with their standard box of bits, I realised a long time ago that a far better approach is to be aware of the real world spec of all LPG components and to do a bit of lateral thinking when it comes to selecting bits for a particular vehicle. Now I have a niche in converting the demanding vehicles that other installers struggle to convert and get running properly on gas, I do far more than my fair share of performance vehicles like BMW M5's, Merc CLC55AMG's, V10 engined stuff, etc.
Components under bonnet comprise:
Reducer... KME Gold HP rated at 380bhp. This was chosen for: A. Power / flow ability, B. Pressure range (0.9 - 1.4 bar), C. Pressure stability, D. Reliability, E. Physical properties which allow a neat job in this particular vehicle's engine bay - such as physical size, shape and the way all the hoses connect. Regarding those hoses - both the feed and return standard heater pipes on the vehicle come from the front driver side of the engine but there is a vacuum operated valve on the driver side inner wing which shuts of heater water flow to the cabin heater matrix if you set the heater to maximum aircon. If the reducer were mounted anywhere else on the vehicle then this would have to mean either longer heater pipes routed around the engine bay or for a need to disable that vacuum operated heater water shut-off valve. If the heater valve were disabled the aircon wouldn't work quite so well as designed, there is a reason why it is fitted! F, The reducer is more temperature stable than other similar spec reducers - at high gas flow the gas temp won't start to come down too low. If gas temp gets too low then injectors collect 'heavy ends' (bit of oil sometimes in gas which would remain a vapour at higher temps), also in severe cases and on a very cold day the gas can turn back into a liquid in the pipes to injector, pipes between injectors and manifold or in the manifold, not good! Some might question why reliability is only mentioned as late as D above, the simple answer is because LPG reducers are all generally reliable!
The reducer is fed by 8mm Faro pipe, has an 8mm inlet to the high flow solenoid / liquid gas filter. Reducer pressure is set at 1.4 bar and runs to..
OMVL injectors... These injectors were chosen because: A. They are extremely reliable, B. They will easily flow enough gas up to the red line at WOT on this engine without needing excessive pressure. C. They will work linearly down to around 3ms opening duration, so to get a smooth idle I didn't need to compromise on top end power by artificially lowering pressure or vice/versa for this vehicle. D. This is one of the few rail type injector designs where gas outlets are horizontal, the horizontal outlets mean the injectors will fit under the engine cover whilst still allowing similar and short pipe lengths to each 'spud' in the inlet manifold runners... They allow a neat job whilst not compromising on performance or life. If you ever see an LPG injector where the plunger shaft for the injector is mounted horizontally it means those injectors have been installed in the wrong orientation so the life of the injectors will be lowered and they won't meter gas quite as accurately as they could. The plunger shafts on these injectors are vertical while the gas outlets are horizontal), with this neat job the injectors won't suffer wear as quickly as other types of injector that might fit under the engine cover.
ECU: AEB 5/6/8 cylinder ECU. This one has a King badge on it. This ECU is almost exactly the same as other 5/6/8 cylinder ECUs wearing Allesi, Bigas, Emer, King, OMVL, Romano, Tartarini, Zavoli, etc badges. AEB make ECUs for all these 'boxed / branded' gas systems, the only difference is the software you need to calibrate them, but all the software for all the above looks and works almost exactly the same. You can unplug any of the above ECUs, plug in any other, calibrate it and it will work the same. The only other small difference between all the above is the injector choices you get when calibrating. When setting up an LPG ECU it needs to know what injectors are being used because all injectors need to be driven differently in an electrical sense - All injectors need to be opened with a high current pulse then held open with a much lower current. Different injectors need a different length initial high current pulse. I use King AEB ECUs because they allow use with the widest choice of injectors, e.g. most AEB ECUs don't have an 'OMVL injector' setting, and also the firmware on King allows a few more calibration options than others. Oh yes, Tartarini is a slight exception in that the main mapping screens are a little different and it uses a different switch inside the vehicle to all the others but they are still all easily interchangeable. The badge on the ECU is the thing most people think about when they talk about what LPG system they have but it is arguably the least important part of the whole system provided the injectors are 'linear' (in brief linear means quick to open and then measure gas accurately, so twice as long an electrical pulse equals twice as much gas injected) and the reducer is up to the job (reducer flow ability, pressure stability, heat stability). I usually use AEB ECU's for 8 cylinder vehicles because A. They are perhaps the most reliable ECU, B. They have been 'fully sequential' for a few years now(they wait until they receive what would be a petrol injection pulse instead of 'jumping the gun' and firing an LPG injector for an inappropriate length of time - previous to them being fully sequential I used other ECUs on certain V8 vehicles). C. The AD convertors in them are very good (they don't make the mistake of reacting to false fluctuations in temperature or pressure readings). D, They take pulse duration readings from the negative side of the petrol injectors and have the ability to switch on one LPG injector at a time (necessary for a smooth petrol to LPG changeover at low rpm without causing the engine to surge, also great for diagnosing injector issues at setup and maybe at some point way in the future). E, They allow 'petrol addition' (Petrol addition allows the vehicle to run on both LPG and petrol at the same time. By always selecting appropriate reducers / injectors for an install I never have to leave a vehicle with petrol addition enabled when I hand back to the customer, but the facility is great for diagnosing ignition related problems during initial setup because if a vehicle misfires when calibrating you might not otherwise immediately be able to tell if the misfire was caused by an ignition or a fueling issue, petrol is less demanding in terms of ignition systems). Not needed at any point whilst setting up this install. F, They allow 'extra injection filtering' - Some engines (not the Monaro) fire petrol injectors very briefly between the main petrol injection pulse (such as when the throttle is blipped). Since LPG ECUs work as a slave to the petrol ECU by interpreting petrol injection pulse duration, without this ability some LPG ECUs can get confused and measure the start of a very short pulse to the end of the long pulse which then vastly overfuels the engine and causes hesitation on hard acceleration. G. They can be set up to automatically start on has with a warm engine. H. They have advanced on board diagnostics. J, They can be connected to a vehicle OBD to read and react to fuel trims (not always a good idea but useful on certain vehicles such as supercharged RangeRovers and BMW Valvetronics). K, the temperature compensation can be adjusted. L, The RPM correction actually works properly unlike with most other ECUs.
On this install, at WOT throttle the gas pressure only falls by 0.2 bar from 1.4bar to 1.2bar with this reducer, and with the 3mm nozzles in the injectors the gas injection duration at WOT is almost exactly the same as the petrol injectors would be doing whilst keeping the mixture correct. Regards injection pulse duration think about this - An engine idling at 600rpm is an engine spinning 10 times a second. There are 1000ms in one second, so the idling engine takes 100ms to do spin 360degrees. The engine is a four stroke, so the injectors have 2 full rotations of the engine (200ms at idle) in which to open, inject fuel, and close again in time for the next injection cycle. At idle, then, the injectors have a 200ms window in which to complete this open/inject/close cycle. The Monaro engine is similar to most engines in that it will do just over 6000rpm. At 6000rpm that window is only one tenth as long as at 600rpm, so the window is only 20ms. If an installer sets up a vehicle so that the injectors need to be open for more than 20ms at 6000rpm at WOT this can only mean that the injectors cannot physically inject enough fuel for the engine... Either the injectors need to be fed with more gas pressure or the injector nozzles need to be wider to allow them to flow more gas when fed with the same pressure in order to put the same amount of gas in while open for less time - probably a combination of both. If the installer picks un-linear injectors then those injectors may take 4.5ms just to open, that 4.5ms comes out of inector flow time at both idle and full engine load, getting both a smooth idle and top end power while running on gas would be a miracle!
If I had fitted a branded boxed OMVL kit, the kit would have come with the same OMVL injectors that I fitted, with a very similar AEB ECU (albeit with an OMVL sticker on it instead of King), but it would have come with an OMVL reducer. OMVL reducers used to be good for high power applications because they would flow a lot of gas, up to about 400bhp. These days they have changed the internal design a little bit and they are now only rated at 280bhp but I see a lot of Monaros converted with OMVL branded boxed kits and the OMVL 280bhp reducer... On top of the reducer flow BHP rating / flow problem, OMVL reducers have never been pressure stable and the recent OMVL reducers are not pressure stable either - So even if the OMVL reducer would flow enough gas for the Monaro's BHP rating the pressure at idle would be maybe 1.8 bar (falling to the same 1.2 bar at full load as the KME Gold reducer) and the OMVL injectors would need to only pulse for say 2.9ms at idle to provide the correct amount of fuel for a smooth idle. This would put the injectors below there minimum injection linearity figure so I wouldn't have been able to get both a good idle and full throttle high rpm if I had fitted an OMVL reducer unless I fitted even more linear injecors such as MJ... But MJ injectors are nothing like as reliable as OMVL injectors...
I see a great many converted vehicles where the installer has not bothered to ensure that their install works at both extremes.. But many installers fit the same list of components on every vehicle that they convert without considering suitability for both the electronic and physical spec of the vehicle. Any installer can convert a 1.6 Astra with their standard box of bits, I realised a long time ago that a far better approach is to be aware of the real world spec of all LPG components and to do a bit of lateral thinking when it comes to selecting bits for a particular vehicle. Now I have a niche in converting the demanding vehicles that other installers struggle to convert and get running properly on gas, I do far more than my fair share of performance vehicles like BMW M5's, Merc CLC55AMG's, V10 engined stuff, etc.
LPG obviously works with our cars so question comes down this.
If you can buy a car that has been converted - happy days.
If you're going to convert it yourself you need to bear in mind that it's going to cost you £2000+ for the conversion. How many miles can you drive on £2000+ of petrol? Only when you get beyond that point do you start to make savings.
You need to be doing a lot of miles to recoup the initial outlay.
And then there's resale value....
If you can buy a car that has been converted - happy days.
If you're going to convert it yourself you need to bear in mind that it's going to cost you £2000+ for the conversion. How many miles can you drive on £2000+ of petrol? Only when you get beyond that point do you start to make savings.
You need to be doing a lot of miles to recoup the initial outlay.
And then there's resale value....
I had LPG fitted to my Landcruiser many years ago, covered 100k miles and 80k miles on LPG never let me down at all, bit of a tractor engine but with a flick of a switch you could go from gas to fuel and you could not notice any difference, not thought about doing the R8 as I have a diesel van that evens out the fuel costs over the year
@ blue 383 . I had quotes of over 2k and higher by people who didn't seem to know much technically.
the reason I had simon convert my car was simply the technical reply I got via email when asking for a quote.
his prices are very competitive too. final charge was less than 1500 .
this includes a free 1000 mile service and check and test.He doesn't run some crazy large garage on an industrial estate so costs are kept low which he obviously
passes onto the customer.
also as costs are concerned ive done some maths and on average mpg I get a 10p per mile saving is on the cards so work out your mileage and do the maths ,its a bonus if you get one already converted but they don't last long on the for sale sites ,they sell quickly, I know as I was looking for one
the reason I had simon convert my car was simply the technical reply I got via email when asking for a quote.
his prices are very competitive too. final charge was less than 1500 .
this includes a free 1000 mile service and check and test.He doesn't run some crazy large garage on an industrial estate so costs are kept low which he obviously
passes onto the customer.
also as costs are concerned ive done some maths and on average mpg I get a 10p per mile saving is on the cards so work out your mileage and do the maths ,its a bonus if you get one already converted but they don't last long on the for sale sites ,they sell quickly, I know as I was looking for one
Edited by maccavvy on Saturday 23 August 07:33
It's Simon who converted the red Monaro... I've been locked in the forum's sin bin for a few days for having a username that pointed to my business - Oops!
The owner could have paid more than £2000 for the LPG conversion but it wouldn't have been any better than the LPG conversion I fitted. Like he said, I charged under £1500 to convert the red Monaro.
There was one 'teething problem', the petrol gauge read empty immediately after the conversion. I originally thought this due to the angle at which the car was parked combined with the fact I had used a small amount of petrol whilst calibrating the LPG system, but when the owner put some petrol in the gauge didn't move. So, I had the car back, checked all the wiring from the petrol level sender which checked out OK, removed the petrol tank and then the petrol pump/sender unit, still it all seemed OK... Then, doing a bit of research on an Australian Monaro forum I discovered that this problem sometimes spuriously occurs and there has been a dealer recall which prevents this happening. The problem is apparently that the BCM (body comtrol module) gets confused or fails to communicate on the canbus with the instrument cluster. The problem might have occurred because I had the battery disconnected whilst installing part of the LPG system. The fix was simple and probably the same as the cause... Disconnecting the batter for another hour fixed the problem! I wish I'd known before removing the petrol tank for the second time (the first time being when I installed the LPG tank) hehe!
Simon
The owner could have paid more than £2000 for the LPG conversion but it wouldn't have been any better than the LPG conversion I fitted. Like he said, I charged under £1500 to convert the red Monaro.
There was one 'teething problem', the petrol gauge read empty immediately after the conversion. I originally thought this due to the angle at which the car was parked combined with the fact I had used a small amount of petrol whilst calibrating the LPG system, but when the owner put some petrol in the gauge didn't move. So, I had the car back, checked all the wiring from the petrol level sender which checked out OK, removed the petrol tank and then the petrol pump/sender unit, still it all seemed OK... Then, doing a bit of research on an Australian Monaro forum I discovered that this problem sometimes spuriously occurs and there has been a dealer recall which prevents this happening. The problem is apparently that the BCM (body comtrol module) gets confused or fails to communicate on the canbus with the instrument cluster. The problem might have occurred because I had the battery disconnected whilst installing part of the LPG system. The fix was simple and probably the same as the cause... Disconnecting the batter for another hour fixed the problem! I wish I'd known before removing the petrol tank for the second time (the first time being when I installed the LPG tank) hehe!
Simon
Blue383 said:
LPG obviously works with our cars so question comes down this.
If you can buy a car that has been converted - happy days.
If you're going to convert it yourself you need to bear in mind that it's going to cost you £2000+ for the conversion. How many miles can you drive on £2000+ of petrol? Only when you get beyond that point do you start to make savings.
You need to be doing a lot of miles to recoup the initial outlay.
And then there's resale value....
If you're going to actually convert it yourself I can sell a competent person a DIY kit (a reasonable home mechanic should be able to fit the LPG with my tech support), a DIY kit will obviously make for further savings on the cost of the LPG install, but a pro install from a good fitter like myself shouldn't cost £2000 anyway on one of these vehicles.If you can buy a car that has been converted - happy days.
If you're going to convert it yourself you need to bear in mind that it's going to cost you £2000+ for the conversion. How many miles can you drive on £2000+ of petrol? Only when you get beyond that point do you start to make savings.
You need to be doing a lot of miles to recoup the initial outlay.
And then there's resale value....
Resale value is mentioned - The ability to run on half price fuel (LPG) is a selling point that adds to the value of the vehicle... If you were looking at 2 otherwise identical vehicles but one could run on LPG, wouldn't you rather spend more for the vehicle which can run on LPG? The savings effectively start before the full cost of the install is saved in terms of fuel costs, because of the added value to the vehicle... If you spend £1500 on an LPG conversion but the conversion immediately adds £750 to the value of the vehicle, then the conversion actually only cost £750? I have had trade customers, whom bought hard to sell vehicles such as big engined Jeeps, paid me to convert them, and immediately sold the vehicle for a much higher sum than they could otherwise have sole the vehicle for.. In these cases the LPG install added more than it's installation cost to the value of the vehicle!
Simon
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Friday 10th October 12:47
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