Got to get a chiller!
Discussion
The bit I'm struggling with is the suggestion that the engine won't get any hotter once the stat has opened. If you expand the principle you could argue that a car with the stat removed wouldn't heat up at all.
Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
RichieSlow said:
The bit I'm struggling with is the suggestion that the engine won't get any hotter once the stat has opened. If you expand the principle you could argue that a car with the stat removed wouldn't heat up at all.
Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
+1 I don't get it either. When I was growing up the thermostat was there to help the engine warm up on cold mornings. Once up to temp it stayed open.Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
RichieSlow said:
The bit I'm struggling with is the suggestion that the engine won't get any hotter once the stat has opened. If you expand the principle you could argue that a car with the stat removed wouldn't heat up at all.
Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
This was my argument, but I think the answer is that the standard 'stat only opens at about 95 deg C, and this is for emission reasons. I can't believe that the lower stat will keep the engine at 71 deg C, but if it sits at 85, rather than 91, then that's probably a good thing. Once I (or someone) gets a lower stat in, we can plot the water temperature when the engine is getting a workout, and prove or disprove the theory.Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
Xpuffin said:
For the LS2 Monaro boys replacing the stat for a cooler running one may cause the cold running overrev beep every time you exceed 4000 rpm. Which would be annoying.
Codswallop, I dont know where you guys get some of this rubbish.Go and look at a tune file and then explain why you are making this up.
wormus said:
+1 I don't get it either. When I was growing up the thermostat was there to help the engine warm up on cold mornings. Once up to temp it stayed open.
It was always simple in old money. It seems that the thermostats have been pushed to higher temp openings, to help the cats and emissions.Remembering back to older cars, you used to let the car idle before driving away as well, but that's no longer advisable.
Can anyone tell me what the standard 'stat opens at?
ringram said:
Xpuffin said:
For the LS2 Monaro boys replacing the stat for a cooler running one may cause the cold running overrev beep every time you exceed 4000 rpm. Which would be annoying.
Codswallop, I dont know where you guys get some of this rubbish.Go and look at a tune file and then explain why you are making this up.
So what does it say ?
ringram said:
Xpuffin said:
For the LS2 Monaro boys replacing the stat for a cooler running one may cause the cold running overrev beep every time you exceed 4000 rpm. Which would be annoying.
Codswallop, I dont know where you guys get some of this rubbish.Go and look at a tune file and then explain why you are making this up.
Or do you mean it can be deleted in the tune. Either way I don't quite understand your codswallop comment so please expand.
Edited by Xpuffin on Wednesday 23 July 22:57
ARAF said:
Water expands at quite an alarming rate, just before it boils, so the system will be under a lot of stress from 105 to 115 deg C
Which will see water blowing out the cap...All the more reason to never let the engine get so hot.
RichieSlow said:
The bit I'm struggling with is the suggestion that the engine won't get any hotter once the stat has opened. If you expand the principle you could argue that a car with the stat removed wouldn't heat up at all.
Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
Your 100deg stat opens/closes, yet your engine doesnt hit 200degC ?Maybe I'm slow in more ways than one but I'm just not grasping the concept.
Rich has often suggested that we need to ask more searching questions, study the evidence, then dig even deeper. I'm still looking for evidence.
That's the purpose of the cooling system, to cool the water which in turn cools the engine. The stat is there to regulate the cooling process.
It will work in exactly the same way with any stat there. Put a colder stat in...and the engine will run cooler. It really doesnt get much simpler.
If the cooling system, radiator etc had plenty of capacity, and you ran no stat at all, then yes the engine would not get very warm at all.
Again dependant on radiator, airflow etc etc
You'd never normally do that though, and certainly not on a road car. That's the sort of crap people did 20+ years ago.
And removing the stat entirely can mess with waterflow through the system, another reason not to do it.
As for evidence...not quite sure what evidence you need ? If you fit a colder stat, engine runs colder, if you fit a warmer stat, it runs warmer.
Fairly simple really.
wormus said:
That doesn't explain the effect of the thermostat Einstein.
It has no effect, why would it ? He's just pointing out you have total control over the fans in order to have them move air at the appropriate temperature for your car.ie pointless fitting a 70deg stat and not having the fans turn on until 110deg.
And pointless fitting a 100deg stat and having the fans on permanently trying to achieve 70deg...as the stat will never allow it to happen
Totally irrelevant.
But in some ways they are doing a similar job. The fan is there to help regulate the temperature of the water in the system. The stat is there to regulate that waterflow through the system to maintain engine temperature at the desired level ( in conjunction with the rad etc of course )
Xpuffin said:
All true providing the assumption is that the cooling system is able to control the engine temps.
If an engine is running at 120c with a 100c stat then installing a 75c stat will have no effect on reducing engine temps in this case.
If your engine has hit 120degC...really wont make any odds as you've already cooked it and have bigger problems to worry about.If an engine is running at 120c with a 100c stat then installing a 75c stat will have no effect on reducing engine temps in this case.
And there is no assumption, of course the radiator has adequate capacity.
Fitting a colder stat isnt rocket science, or some new mysterious modification.
It's about as basic and simple as you can get.
stevieturbo said:
Xpuffin said:
All true providing the assumption is that the cooling system is able to control the engine temps.
If an engine is running at 120c with a 100c stat then installing a 75c stat will have no effect on reducing engine temps in this case.
If your engine has hit 120degC...really wont make any odds as you've already cooked it and have bigger problems to worry about.If an engine is running at 120c with a 100c stat then installing a 75c stat will have no effect on reducing engine temps in this case.
And there is no assumption, of course the radiator has adequate capacity.
Fitting a colder stat isnt rocket science, or some new mysterious modification.
It's about as basic and simple as you can get.
Xpuffin said:
I get that, just pointing out that some of these cars get pretty hot and that fitting a cooler stat is no guarantee of a fix under some circumstances.
They get pretty hot because some buck eejit designed them to run very hot !!And when using water as a coolant which boils around 100degC...having them run hotter than this seems almost insane.
But all these silly emissions rules dictate it.
If you fit a colder stat....yes under very extreme circumstances temperature might rise a little over normal ( normal being new stat level of course )...
But even if it exceeded stat level by 20deg, you're still at a very safe 90degC
If you exceed stat level with 100degC by 20degC...you just cooked your engine.
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