Got to get a chiller!
Discussion
Doesnt matter whether drag, track, road. Track can be easier simply due to more airflow, and with a cooler engine, easier to maintain the lower temp.
The OEM cooling system will easily have the ability to maintain temperature of the stat here in the UK...unless we get some freak 40-50degC weather.
And I think you underestimate the excess capacity there will be built into the cooling system.
Have any Monaro owners here needed to upgrade their radiator on any build ?
Nope.
Do the guys in the US, some in places like Florida, Texas, Arizona routinely change radiators ? Nope
There is plenty of capacity for them. Many of them when tuning also switch to the colder 160degF stats. That is a pretty routine thing with the yanks.
Few retain the hot OEM stats.
You do not need an extra row in your rad, and no there wont be any major temp fluctuations, any more so than you'd see with a hot OEM stat.
And either way, the cooler running engine will run safer and have an ability for slightly more power...and if you have a huge chargeheater bolted to the engine...cooler stat will yield cooler charge temps too.
There are no downsides in this case.
The OEM cooling system will easily have the ability to maintain temperature of the stat here in the UK...unless we get some freak 40-50degC weather.
And I think you underestimate the excess capacity there will be built into the cooling system.
Have any Monaro owners here needed to upgrade their radiator on any build ?
Nope.
Do the guys in the US, some in places like Florida, Texas, Arizona routinely change radiators ? Nope
There is plenty of capacity for them. Many of them when tuning also switch to the colder 160degF stats. That is a pretty routine thing with the yanks.
Few retain the hot OEM stats.
You do not need an extra row in your rad, and no there wont be any major temp fluctuations, any more so than you'd see with a hot OEM stat.
And either way, the cooler running engine will run safer and have an ability for slightly more power...and if you have a huge chargeheater bolted to the engine...cooler stat will yield cooler charge temps too.
There are no downsides in this case.
Interestingly Porsche on the new 911 run it at 105 deg C during normal operation for emissions compliance & efficiency, then by thermal management quickly switch to an 85 degree C temperature for high load/sporty driving for the reasons Stevie states, not sure such an arrangement is possible on an LS platform though
captainblakk said:
Interestingly Porsche on the new 911 run it at 105 deg C during normal operation for emissions compliance & efficiency, then by thermal management quickly switch to an 85 degree C temperature for high load/sporty driving for the reasons Stevie states, not sure such an arrangement is possible on an LS platform though
Screw emissions, once a year it is critical. The rest of the time it is not.And as said you can easily delay fan turn on time when sitting stationary to let the engine run warmer during the stationary period for any testing.
But really...make life simple. A cold stat is cheap and it works.
Why make life difficult for yourself if you're struggling with excess heat ?
Just get rid of some of the heat the easiest possible way.
How about more flow rather than a lower temp setting?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRIDON-HIGH-FLOW-THERMO...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRIDON-HIGH-FLOW-THERMO...
Gary H 2008 said:
How about more flow rather than a lower temp setting?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRIDON-HIGH-FLOW-THERMO...
Pointless because you're still stuck with that hot engine pumping 100degC into your chargeheater.http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TRIDON-HIGH-FLOW-THERMO...
There isnt an issue with flow in the first place.
Silly comment on the advert about "not needing a cooler stat". Totally irrelevant statement
We dont need another few hundred horsepower either. But we want it !
But you definitely dont need a thermostat that flows more, opens at the same temperature, when there isnt a flow problem in the first place.
That's a total waste of money
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Gasket-6367-LS1-Late-Th...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLP-100228-Low-Temp-160-de...
LS1's where the stat is part of the housing are more expensive. Think I might have a couple of those lying about.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-2002-Camaro-Firebird-...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SLP-100228-Low-Temp-160-de...
LS1's where the stat is part of the housing are more expensive. Think I might have a couple of those lying about.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-2002-Camaro-Firebird-...
ringram said:
Indeed; Homework...
Instead of debating on the keyboard if you guys did some R&D and come back with what you discover is the optimal temperature for performance I will bet my bottom dollar its not OEM.
Theorising costs nothing, and differing views are healthy. I accept what Steve is saying, and would be happy to try it, but as we don't have a supercharger, or have water cooling problems, it's academic to us.Instead of debating on the keyboard if you guys did some R&D and come back with what you discover is the optimal temperature for performance I will bet my bottom dollar its not OEM.
Oil temps are a problem though......
ARAF said:
Theorising costs nothing, and differing views are healthy. I accept what Steve is saying, and would be happy to try it, but as we don't have a supercharger, or have water cooling problems, it's academic to us.
Oil temps are a problem though......
Cooler engine = cooler oil temps...without a dedicated oil cooler.Oil temps are a problem though......
Every little helps.
stevieturbo said:
ARAF said:
Theorising costs nothing, and differing views are healthy. I accept what Steve is saying, and would be happy to try it, but as we don't have a supercharger, or have water cooling problems, it's academic to us.
Oil temps are a problem though......
Cooler engine = cooler oil temps...without a dedicated oil cooler.Oil temps are a problem though......
Every little helps.
I quite agree. If you've got a block of aluminium, with water one side, and oil the other, then heat will transfer between the liquids - and something as cheap as a new stat is worth a punt. 
I treat every day as a school day and I've read all of the above with interest, pondered it at length, and then decided that I'm with ARAF on this one.
To simplify my conclusion: the relationship between heat generation vs heat dissipation (ie. the cooling system) is not affected in any way by a different thermostat. Fans, radiator and airflow are still the same. Only the warming up phase is different because of the early opening stat, once up to constant running temperature there would be no difference.
Of course, if somebody can show me how they actually managed to record a reduction in block temperature and gained power as a result then I might stop and listen. Do we even know what temperature we should be aiming for anyway?
If I believed everything I'd read on here I'd think that changing the thermostat will gain me 20hp and taking out the air filter will get me 30 more.
To simplify my conclusion: the relationship between heat generation vs heat dissipation (ie. the cooling system) is not affected in any way by a different thermostat. Fans, radiator and airflow are still the same. Only the warming up phase is different because of the early opening stat, once up to constant running temperature there would be no difference.
Of course, if somebody can show me how they actually managed to record a reduction in block temperature and gained power as a result then I might stop and listen. Do we even know what temperature we should be aiming for anyway?
If I believed everything I'd read on here I'd think that changing the thermostat will gain me 20hp and taking out the air filter will get me 30 more.
RichieSlow said:
I treat every day as a school day and I've read all of the above with interest, pondered it at length, and then decided that I'm with ARAF on this one.
To simplify my conclusion: the relationship between heat generation vs heat dissipation (ie. the cooling system) is not affected in any way by a different thermostat. Fans, radiator and airflow are still the same. Only the warming up phase is different because of the early opening stat, once up to constant running temperature there would be no difference.
Of course, if somebody can show me how they actually managed to record a reduction in block temperature and gained power as a result then I might stop and listen. Do we even know what temperature we should be aiming for anyway?
If I believed everything I'd read on here I'd think that changing the thermostat will gain me 20hp and taking out the air filter will get me 30 more.
Totally agree with you! To simplify my conclusion: the relationship between heat generation vs heat dissipation (ie. the cooling system) is not affected in any way by a different thermostat. Fans, radiator and airflow are still the same. Only the warming up phase is different because of the early opening stat, once up to constant running temperature there would be no difference.
Of course, if somebody can show me how they actually managed to record a reduction in block temperature and gained power as a result then I might stop and listen. Do we even know what temperature we should be aiming for anyway?
If I believed everything I'd read on here I'd think that changing the thermostat will gain me 20hp and taking out the air filter will get me 30 more.
By the way, since yr not a MOD now, I know a tuner who ran a nice stroked and SC Monaro with no filter at all so it must work...
Thought I'd contribute a bit too, why the hell not!
It is a matter of chemistry that higher combustion temps are better for emissions, but worse for power. The cars run at the higher temperature for emissions reasons.
In my experience, when sat stationary, the car will get to 100C comfortably. It will then continue to rise up to about 110C. Then the fans kick in for a bit, drop it to 100, then go back off. It then rises back to 110 and so on. This was experienced whilst parked in the pairing lanes on a 28C day.
Doing a run with the engine starting at 100+, I was getting a few degrees of timing pulled around peak torque (4500ish rpm)
On that same day, I then adjusted when the fans ramp up to speed (I'd actually already made the tune, I just flashed it on) and sat in the pairing lanes, it happily fluctuated between 90C - 92C, which then led to no timing being retarded.
In this instance, the cooling system was previously not being used to capacity, and so there was scope for more performance. Having a lower stat, I assume, would mean that more of the cooling system's capacity is used earlier (in temperature terms), and whilst operating within the cooling system's capacity, would result in cooler temps and better performance.
Once the cooling system is operating at maximum capacity, aside from any advantage of starting off a bit cooler, then I'd be forced to assume that the temperature is going to rise just the same, and ultimately to the same peak level.
It is a matter of chemistry that higher combustion temps are better for emissions, but worse for power. The cars run at the higher temperature for emissions reasons.
In my experience, when sat stationary, the car will get to 100C comfortably. It will then continue to rise up to about 110C. Then the fans kick in for a bit, drop it to 100, then go back off. It then rises back to 110 and so on. This was experienced whilst parked in the pairing lanes on a 28C day.
Doing a run with the engine starting at 100+, I was getting a few degrees of timing pulled around peak torque (4500ish rpm)
On that same day, I then adjusted when the fans ramp up to speed (I'd actually already made the tune, I just flashed it on) and sat in the pairing lanes, it happily fluctuated between 90C - 92C, which then led to no timing being retarded.
In this instance, the cooling system was previously not being used to capacity, and so there was scope for more performance. Having a lower stat, I assume, would mean that more of the cooling system's capacity is used earlier (in temperature terms), and whilst operating within the cooling system's capacity, would result in cooler temps and better performance.
Once the cooling system is operating at maximum capacity, aside from any advantage of starting off a bit cooler, then I'd be forced to assume that the temperature is going to rise just the same, and ultimately to the same peak level.
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