Are the superchargers any good?
Discussion
GaryNoGrip said:
Funny you should say that as a jag xf sv8 is on my "maybe" list too
The other issue with the jag supercharger, as MYM8V8 said, is IAT. I spoke recently with the dealership about the new F-type and of course it isn't inter-cooled. It was a little alarming to discover that the sales guy didn't understand the importance of this. Shut him up though.GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
Blue383 said:
The other issue with the jag supercharger, as MYM8V8 said, is IAT. I spoke recently with the dealership about the new F-type and of course it isn't inter-cooled. It was a little alarming to discover that the sales guy didn't understand the importance of this. Shut him up though.
GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
I suggest the salesman is clueless. Of course it has an intercooler.GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
monkfish1 said:
Blue383 said:
The other issue with the jag supercharger, as MYM8V8 said, is IAT. I spoke recently with the dealership about the new F-type and of course it isn't inter-cooled. It was a little alarming to discover that the sales guy didn't understand the importance of this. Shut him up though.
GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
I suggest the salesman is clueless. Of course it has an intercooler.GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
Blue383 said:
The other issue with the jag supercharger, as MYM8V8 said, is IAT. I spoke recently with the dealership about the new F-type and of course it isn't inter-cooled. It was a little alarming to discover that the sales guy didn't understand the importance of this. Shut him up though.
GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
As far as I'm aware a k and n panel filter, 3" downpipe back exhaust, that's about it, could mess around and do headers,cai and remap first, may be enough. GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
GaryNoGrip said:
Blue383 said:
The other issue with the jag supercharger, as MYM8V8 said, is IAT. I spoke recently with the dealership about the new F-type and of course it isn't inter-cooled. It was a little alarming to discover that the sales guy didn't understand the importance of this. Shut him up though.
GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
As far as I'm aware a k and n panel filter, 3" downpipe back exhaust, that's about it, could mess around and do headers,cai and remap first, may be enough. GNG is your car bog standard at the moment or has it had a little work done?
Remember that each mod changes the nature of the car and that could take it further away from being a daily driver. My Monaro is now a loud, cam shaking, savage of a thing and is great fun...if you are in mood. Its not fun on the M62 in stationary traffic on a Friday afternoon. And for that reason I have the Jag as my daily drive. Having said that the Monaro was my daily drive up until the point it was running 500+bhp.
OEM intercooler or not, by design the Rootes style blowers will always be on the back foot compared to a centrifugal in terms of air temperatures.
The centri rarely as limited by space for charge cooling, and it is a more efficient compressor compared to the Rootes.
So with a centri, unless you implement it badly, IAT's should not be an issue to worry about like they almost always are with the Rootes.
But as others said, no matter how quiet some claim a blower is...they are never totally silent. Some may like it, some hate it others learn to tolerate it.
SO that is one aspect to consider for a daily.
Obviously the lower power end you stay with, the quieter they will tend to be. So experiencing what both sound like would be very worthwhile to help a decision
On a budget though, total reliability...a good set of heads and cam upgrade, or chuck in a 427 crate type motor.
It would keep Richard happy, but really it is a well proven and very sensible course of action unless you really may want more in the future.
You could even install a large motor with slightly reduced CR and boost in mind for the future. If you never do boost it, no big loss anyway. It'll still be a huge upgrade over standard anyway
The centri rarely as limited by space for charge cooling, and it is a more efficient compressor compared to the Rootes.
So with a centri, unless you implement it badly, IAT's should not be an issue to worry about like they almost always are with the Rootes.
But as others said, no matter how quiet some claim a blower is...they are never totally silent. Some may like it, some hate it others learn to tolerate it.
SO that is one aspect to consider for a daily.
Obviously the lower power end you stay with, the quieter they will tend to be. So experiencing what both sound like would be very worthwhile to help a decision
On a budget though, total reliability...a good set of heads and cam upgrade, or chuck in a 427 crate type motor.
It would keep Richard happy, but really it is a well proven and very sensible course of action unless you really may want more in the future.
You could even install a large motor with slightly reduced CR and boost in mind for the future. If you never do boost it, no big loss anyway. It'll still be a huge upgrade over standard anyway
GaryNoGrip said:
As far as I'm aware a k and n panel filter, 3" downpipe back exhaust, that's about it, could mess around and do headers,cai and remap first, may be enough.
I'm holding off from having a remap until I have all of the hardware in place. If not, you only have to tweak the map again. 
Ours was standard. I look on it as a journey, and knowing that the Holdens are not as well equiped as HSVs, my first research was to look through what people throw away from their VXRs in the UK, that are an upgrade on what was fitted to our SSV. The headers stood out like a sore thumb. The VXR8 has tube headers and different cats to the VE SSV, and guessing that HSV didn't use more expensive components just for fun, I obtained a set from a couple of forum members and fitted them. Hopefully they will make a small improvement, as the old cast headers had a 'D' shaped port, which suggests they are from a very old engine design and certainly not optimal. I haven't noticed an increase in performance, but the exhaust note is slightly deeper, which would suggest they are more voluminous. Maybe SRR will give us a figure for this, the CAI, and the 'X' pipe - as long as I don't do further before the dyno day.
Whilst it is said that the VXR8 headers won't fit the Monaro, if you can get a pair for virtually nothing, it's got to be worth investing a few hours into seeing if they can be modified to fit?
Just to paddle against the flow, I don't have a goal that I'm looking to achieve with regard to the power.
stevieturbo said:
The centri rarely as limited by space for charge cooling, and it is a more efficient compressor compared to the Rootes.
So with a centri, unless you implement it badly, IAT's should not be an issue to worry about like they almost always are with the Rootes.
Not entirely true, TVS blowers have up to 76% thermal efficiency if run at the correct speed which is very good. The problem I've found is heat soak so when the engine is cold AITs start off at 76 deg F and it gets up to temperature (192 deg F) it increases to 100 deg F even cruising. WOT that does up to 135 deg F so not really that big an increase. So with a centri, unless you implement it badly, IAT's should not be an issue to worry about like they almost always are with the Rootes.
The key is to get the AITs down to a steady 60 deg F when cruising which should be possible from everything I've seen on the chiller kits. they manage this even when the car is left idling in 100 deg F ambient!
In short the problem is not the blower, it's the big hot engine it's bolted to.
I've been looking at these: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343...
Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
Roger?.....
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd September 14:20
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 3rd September 14:24
wormus said:
I've been looking at these: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343...
Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
Roger?.....
Will it fit under the bonnet ?Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
Roger?.....
Edited by wormus on Wednesday 3rd September 14:20
Edited by wormus on Wednesday 3rd September 14:24
wormus said:
...
Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
...
A few years ago on PH in the land of beards and ferrets (TVR), it was found that a plate similar to these, under the alloy plenum of a Rover V8 was worth about 3bhp on a 300bhp engine. Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
...
wormus said:
Not entirely true, TVS blowers have up to 76% thermal efficiency if run at the correct speed which is very good. The problem I've found is heat soak so when the engine is cold AITs start off at 76 deg F and it gets up to temperature (192 deg F) it increases to 100 deg F even cruising. WOT that does up to 135 deg F so not really that big an increase.
The key is to get the AITs down to a steady 60 deg F when cruising which should be possible from everything I've seen on the chiller kits. they manage this even when the car is left idling in 100 deg F ambient!
In short the problem is not the blower, it's the big hot engine it's bolted to.
I've been looking at these: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343...
Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
Roger?.....
And if you research more, there are those who say phenolic spacers make heat problems worse.The key is to get the AITs down to a steady 60 deg F when cruising which should be possible from everything I've seen on the chiller kits. they manage this even when the car is left idling in 100 deg F ambient!
In short the problem is not the blower, it's the big hot engine it's bolted to.
I've been looking at these: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343...
Developed by RDS: "phenolic plate to be added between the two manifolds This material isolates the heat of the engine from the supercharger. This allows the intercooler to do its job, which is cooling the incoming air removing virtually all existing heat soak . Raising the intercooler off the floor of the lower manifold also increases plenum volume and removes restriction allowing a clear path to the intake ports. The supercharger is literally cool to the touch pull after pull. All this equals more HP."
Roger?.....
When cruising and the blower is cool with cool air flowing through it and no boost being made, yes it will get heated by the engine.
But when on boost and the compressor is working hard, air temps may well be over 100degC...much much higher, in those cases the engine will be working to remove heat from the supercharger unit.
So think very carefully before jumping to such things.
There is simply no comparison to the use of phenolic spacers on a carburettor. The carb doesnt create heat to 200degC or so like the blower will.
And claiming it might be efficient at some point is meaningless if you still cant cool the air efficiently.
The bottom line is still the same, the problems the suffer are still the same.
Fact. All compressors make heat. In fact most of the energy input goes in to doing just that. f
king around with heat soak issues (whilst it is a problem area to be managed) is therefore not the main issue.
The main reason a centri is better, is (not that it is more efficient at compressing air) but that the air to air intercooling possible with the system layout, lends itself much better to lowering IATs and, secondarily, it does not suffer from additional heat soak like a valley blower.
Power delivery from a centri to a PD Blower is chalk and cheese. You just make the choice of which suits you, and put up with the vagaries presented.
Or, keep it simple and go atmospheric.
king around with heat soak issues (whilst it is a problem area to be managed) is therefore not the main issue.The main reason a centri is better, is (not that it is more efficient at compressing air) but that the air to air intercooling possible with the system layout, lends itself much better to lowering IATs and, secondarily, it does not suffer from additional heat soak like a valley blower.
Power delivery from a centri to a PD Blower is chalk and cheese. You just make the choice of which suits you, and put up with the vagaries presented.
Or, keep it simple and go atmospheric.
Centrifugal compressors ARE more efficient at compressing air than Rootes.
Just in a similar fashion to Twin Screw compressors are more efficient.
They are just superior designs for that task. Even Wiki says they're poor at compressing air lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots-type_supercharg...
Roote's types while they have improved a little in recent years...have also changed very little over the decades
The fact a centri also lends itself by design to allowing easy charge cooling is another benefit. It's a win win.
But yes and it's already been said the two also offer very different characteristics.
Some may prefer the characteristics of one over the other despite any good or bad points they may also have.
Just in a similar fashion to Twin Screw compressors are more efficient.
They are just superior designs for that task. Even Wiki says they're poor at compressing air lol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roots-type_supercharg...
Roote's types while they have improved a little in recent years...have also changed very little over the decades
The fact a centri also lends itself by design to allowing easy charge cooling is another benefit. It's a win win.
But yes and it's already been said the two also offer very different characteristics.
Some may prefer the characteristics of one over the other despite any good or bad points they may also have.
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