Gutted, mapping :(

[mailer555]

jonnM said:

mailer555 said:

Yeah, ls2, standard intake manifold.

Get a Fast 102 on there!

Who mapped it?

Performance HQ garage in Dunfermline mapped it. Even adding say 20% for transition loss it's only 440bhp, that just seems very low for what has been done. Even the guy mapping it said that and he's mapped a few of these cars. It's him that thinks something is restricting the top end, no idea what tho?

[mikeyb1987]

stigmundfreud said:

the cam specs would help as you could have stuck in a bad grind and yes the e40 can be tuned but it is such a horrible ecu which comes back to the repeated question who tuned it

Totally agree re cam specs and who mapped it

[mailer555]

mikeyb1987 said:

mailer555 said:

Mikey, I totally agree about needing the top end! Mine gets used all the time! I've seen cars with near identical spec pumping out way more, just seems a not a big gain for all the effort!

Out of interest John, what were you expecting power-wise? 360rwhp is pretty good. Admittedly, it looks like there's power left to gain, but there does appear to be a restriction (the drop off higher up the Rev range is the indicator).

More importantly, what does it drive like

Edited by mikeyb1987 on Monday 22 December 19:42

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

[mikeyb1987]

jameshsv said:

Ok yes m8 i forget silly me.Why did you not go for a bit bigger cam then.

Based on research (and a lot of nudging in the right direction from Ringram ) I believed my cam spec to be ideal. I still do! It's completely exceeded my expectations. In fact the only down-side is the mapping, but that's another story

[stevieturbo]

Was the cam installed correctly ? suitable springs ? lifter pre-load ?

Was a full power run done before the work was carried out so you actually have a before/after result ?

And did the "tuner" notice anything odd when mapping it ? ie timing requirements, fueling requirements etc ?
How does airflow look ?

[mailer555]

mikeyb1987 said:

jameshsv said:

Ok yes m8 i forget silly me.Why did you not go for a bit bigger cam then.

Based on research (and a lot of nudging in the right direction from Ringram ) I believed my cam spec to be ideal. I still do! It's completely exceeded my expectations. In fact the only down-side is the mapping, but that's another story

Have you had problems with mapping as well Mikey? I know there is more to be had as it flat lines at about 5700rpm just don't know what the problem is?

[mikeyb1987]

mailer555 said:

Have you had problems with mapping as well Mikey? I know there is more to be had as it flat lines at about 5700rpm just don't know what the problem is?

Yeah, but my issues relate to the idle tune, rather than WOT.

I think you need to speak to the guy who mapped it, and the person who installed the cam. As per what Stevie said, there might be issues. If not, then I'm presuming there is a restriction in airflow. Have you/can you log intake manifold pressure?

[stigmundfreud]

mailer555 said:

mikeyb1987 said:

mailer555 said:

Mikey, I totally agree about needing the top end! Mine gets used all the time! I've seen cars with near identical spec pumping out way more, just seems a not a big gain for all the effort!

Out of interest John, what were you expecting power-wise? 360rwhp is pretty good. Admittedly, it looks like there's power left to gain, but there does appear to be a restriction (the drop off higher up the Rev range is the indicator).

More importantly, what does it drive like

Edited by mikeyb1987 on Monday 22 December 19:42

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

not sure if seriously evading two questions on cam spec and who did the tune. also pointless comparing to the MF set up as you need to compare on a forum dyno day so you will get a true comparrison

you chould have shoved a truck cam in there, you have not mentioned your spec so whats the lift whats the lsa as that will give you an indication. You could have a tug boat cam

[MadMaxHSV]

mailer555 said:

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

500 RWHP?.... Don't think so. At the fly maybe.
You're not comparing apples with apples.

And what's wrong with mapping the E40 Stig? Easier than those horrible VVE tables in the new E38's.

[jameshsv]

mikeyb1987 said:

Based on research (and a lot of nudging in the right direction from Ringram ) I believed my cam spec to be ideal. I still do! It's completely exceeded my expectations. In fact the only down-side is the mapping, but that's another story

Glad to here that and i hope your mapping niggle gets soughted m8.

[jameshsv]

mikeyb1987 said:

Based on research (and a lot of nudging in the right direction from Ringram ) I believed my cam spec to be ideal. I still do! It's completely exceeded my expectations. In fact the only down-side is the mapping, but that's another story

Glad to here that and i hope your mapping niggle gets soughted m8.

[stigmundfreud]

MadMaxHSV said:

mailer555 said:

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

500 RWHP?.... Don't think so. At the fly maybe.
You're not comparing apples with apples.

And what's wrong with mapping the E40 Stig? Easier than those horrible VVE tables in the new E38's.

the vve's are a dream to work with, an evolution of the 40s attempt makes big changes easy to accomodate i know gelf had to do the groundwork on the e40 and as it was so short lived the support never really blossomed

[MadMaxHSV]

stigmundfreud said:

the vve's are a dream to work with, an evolution of the 40s attempt makes big changes easy to accomodate i know gelf had to do the groundwork on the e40 and as it was so short lived the support never really blossomed

O/T but would love to hear your approach to changing the VVE's. Not that I ended up digging very far.
Gave a good shot with Mick's car to tune them for SD but was sadly too steep a curve with the time had available.

[ARAF]

Have you tried running on the dyno without the filter element in?

I doubt your exhaust set up is to blame.

[mailer555]

stigmundfreud said:

mailer555 said:

mikeyb1987 said:

mailer555 said:

Mikey, I totally agree about needing the top end! Mine gets used all the time! I've seen cars with near identical spec pumping out way more, just seems a not a big gain for all the effort!

Out of interest John, what were you expecting power-wise? 360rwhp is pretty good. Admittedly, it looks like there's power left to gain, but there does appear to be a restriction (the drop off higher up the Rev range is the indicator).

More importantly, what does it drive like

Edited by mikeyb1987 on Monday 22 December 19:42

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

not sure if seriously evading two questions on cam spec and who did the tune. also pointless comparing to the MF set up as you need to compare on a forum dyno day so you will get a true comparrison

you chould have shoved a truck cam in there, you have not mentioned your spec so whats the lift whats the lsa as that will give you an indication. You could have a tug boat cam

If you look back I said who mapped it, Performance HQ garage in Dunfermline and I'll put up the full cam spec when I get home, don't know it of by heart. Not trying to avoid any question, just need to get all my info I front of me before I can answer all the questions.

Mikey, I've not got manifold stats to look at.

[mailer555]

ARAF said:

Have you tried running on the dyno without the filter element in?

I doubt your exhaust set up is to blame.

Yeah, first we took the OTR off but that messed everything up cos the air was to turbulent so we refitted it but with out the filter and it gained 2bhp at the top, so no real difference. We ruled that out, also checked if the TB was opening fully and it was.

[ARAF]

mailer555 said:

ARAF said:

Have you tried running on the dyno without the filter element in?

I doubt your exhaust set up is to blame.

Yeah, first we took the OTR off but that messed everything up cos the air was to turbulent so we refitted it but with out the filter and it gained 2bhp at the top, so no real difference. We ruled that out, also checked if the TB was opening fully and it was.

Working on the principal that our standard exhaust is able to cope with 385hp, I would discount yours, unless the cats are suspect. We're running a CAI in the wing rather than an OTR, but as the filter is the most restrictive part, I also think it unlikely to be the problem.

With this in mind, while the upgrades are nice, they are not necessary for 400hp (IMHO).

So, this leaves us with you getting 360bhp from an engine with a cam and map, where the standard engine produces 320hp. I'm not sure that there's a problem.

[mailer555]

Ok, cam spec as follows
Lunati voodoo 227/233
Lobe separation 113

Better just put up a pic, is this everything you need? Also all the recommended parts were used in the form of valve springs, push rods etc. the only thing I was wondering about was about timing, the tuner tried 1 deg advance which made no difference but I was wondering if he should have tried more than that?

[mailer555]

MadMaxHSV said:

mailer555 said:

Well the monkfish kit gets just shy of 500bhp with a smaller cam? So was expecting those kind of figures.

500 RWHP?.... Don't think so. At the fly maybe.
You're not comparing apples with apples.

And what's wrong with mapping the E40 Stig? Easier than those horrible VVE tables in the new E38's.

Sorry, not meaning 500rwhp, what I'm saying is mine equates to about 440fwhp and it should be a fair bit more than that. That was what I was trying to get across. The print out shows the power basically flat lines from 5600rpm. We increased the rev limit to 6800rpm as per the cam recommends and it was flat right up to that point. So if I gained 50rwhp from bottom to mid range but nothing at the top there must be something up?

[mailer555]

stevieturbo said:

Was the cam installed correctly ? suitable springs ? lifter pre-load ?

Was a full power run done before the work was carried out so you actually have a before/after result ?

And did the "tuner" notice anything odd when mapping it ? ie timing requirements, fueling requirements etc ?
How does airflow look ?

There was no run done before the cam was fitted as it was a different company that fitted the cam. When we done the first run today the car was running a bit lean, but apart from that nothing out the norm. I e only got the printout that I've put up, it's all the info I have. Timing was fine, tried advancing by 1 and made no difference so he said that there was no point advancing it any further.