Gutted, mapping :(
Discussion
Guys, thanks for all the comments so far!
I'm not trying to hunt a particular figure, what I'm trying to do is get to the bottom of why it peaks at 5800rpm and basically flat lines at that as even the tuner had said it should still be pulling and gaining, it was the tuner that had said there is a restriction of some kind at the top end. The final hp figure is not that important, getting to the bottom of the restriction is.
I'm not trying to hunt a particular figure, what I'm trying to do is get to the bottom of why it peaks at 5800rpm and basically flat lines at that as even the tuner had said it should still be pulling and gaining, it was the tuner that had said there is a restriction of some kind at the top end. The final hp figure is not that important, getting to the bottom of the restriction is.
right so he didnt do any timin changes? did he map the ve? is he familiar with mapping an e40 ecu?
You need to dial in your tune then start adjusting things, like timing, you can go quite agressive on them.
what were your afr readings through the run? You really need to do both dyno and on road mapping to get the most out of it, remember with MF they have a dialed in base map they then customise with some road runs to finesse due to slight diffrences from car to car.
there must have been something done to your fueling to accomodate for the 30% extra exhaust capacity and the OTR?
Heres a tip if not done, whack the afr probe in and watch the afr during a run, if you aint changed the commanded fuel under wide open throttle it was around 1.2 eq too rich out of the box but your exhaust, headers and otr should have leaned things up. Watch the afr and report back. What was he doing if not doing timing too? Was he just pissing around with the commadned AFR? If so, your figures are to be expected. For reference with nothing more than an ls1, some headers and a new system I tuned over an additional 70hp out of a cv8 by optimising VE tables (the efficiency for mixing fuel/air per rpm per cylinder) and spark tables. I never finished it off but look, no cam, no OTR and 70bhp, that took time with a wideband, a laptop, patience and then a few dyno runs to finish off
You need to dial in your tune then start adjusting things, like timing, you can go quite agressive on them.
what were your afr readings through the run? You really need to do both dyno and on road mapping to get the most out of it, remember with MF they have a dialed in base map they then customise with some road runs to finesse due to slight diffrences from car to car.
there must have been something done to your fueling to accomodate for the 30% extra exhaust capacity and the OTR?
Heres a tip if not done, whack the afr probe in and watch the afr during a run, if you aint changed the commanded fuel under wide open throttle it was around 1.2 eq too rich out of the box but your exhaust, headers and otr should have leaned things up. Watch the afr and report back. What was he doing if not doing timing too? Was he just pissing around with the commadned AFR? If so, your figures are to be expected. For reference with nothing more than an ls1, some headers and a new system I tuned over an additional 70hp out of a cv8 by optimising VE tables (the efficiency for mixing fuel/air per rpm per cylinder) and spark tables. I never finished it off but look, no cam, no OTR and 70bhp, that took time with a wideband, a laptop, patience and then a few dyno runs to finish off
stigmundfreud said:
right so he didnt do any timin changes? did he map the ve? is he familiar with mapping an e40 ecu?
You need to dial in your tune then start adjusting things, like timing, you can go quite agressive on them.
what were your afr readings through the run? You really need to do both dyno and on road mapping to get the most out of it, remember with MF they have a dialed in base map they then customise with some road runs to finesse due to slight diffrences from car to car.
there must have been something done to your fueling to accomodate for the 30% extra exhaust capacity and the OTR?
Heres a tip if not done, whack the afr probe in and watch the afr during a run, if you aint changed the commanded fuel under wide open throttle it was around 1.2 eq too rich out of the box but your exhaust, headers and otr should have leaned things up. Watch the afr and report back. What was he doing if not doing timing too? Was he just pissing around with the commadned AFR? If so, your figures are to be expected. For reference with nothing more than an ls1, some headers and a new system I tuned over an additional 70hp out of a cv8 by optimising VE tables (the efficiency for mixing fuel/air per rpm per cylinder) and spark tables. I never finished it off but look, no cam, no OTR and 70bhp, that took time with a wideband, a laptop, patience and then a few dyno runs to finish off
Stig, sounds like you know a lot about this! As you may have noticed, I have no idea when it ones to mapping, I have got the full efi live package which we used to do the map, but the questions you have asked I cannot answer. Like I said earlier I thought he might have done a bit more on the timing, I can down load my map, is it worth sending to someone to have a look at? And if so where can I send it? You need to dial in your tune then start adjusting things, like timing, you can go quite agressive on them.
what were your afr readings through the run? You really need to do both dyno and on road mapping to get the most out of it, remember with MF they have a dialed in base map they then customise with some road runs to finesse due to slight diffrences from car to car.
there must have been something done to your fueling to accomodate for the 30% extra exhaust capacity and the OTR?
Heres a tip if not done, whack the afr probe in and watch the afr during a run, if you aint changed the commanded fuel under wide open throttle it was around 1.2 eq too rich out of the box but your exhaust, headers and otr should have leaned things up. Watch the afr and report back. What was he doing if not doing timing too? Was he just pissing around with the commadned AFR? If so, your figures are to be expected. For reference with nothing more than an ls1, some headers and a new system I tuned over an additional 70hp out of a cv8 by optimising VE tables (the efficiency for mixing fuel/air per rpm per cylinder) and spark tables. I never finished it off but look, no cam, no OTR and 70bhp, that took time with a wideband, a laptop, patience and then a few dyno runs to finish off
Edited by mailer555 on Monday 22 December 22:50
I think you're right, he only played with the afr! What's my best way. Forward In your opinion? I have efi live but no idea how to use it!
Edited by mailer555 on Monday 22 December 22:55
If you want to learn how to do it, then how about this?
https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/efilive-tuning/rem...
Or if you want someone to write the tune for you, then this looks to be very good value - when you think that the unit has a $200 refund when it's returned - and as you don't need it, you should only pay $500 - or about £280
https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/remote-tuning-serv...
https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/efilive-tuning/rem...
Or if you want someone to write the tune for you, then this looks to be very good value - when you think that the unit has a $200 refund when it's returned - and as you don't need it, you should only pay $500 - or about £280
https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/remote-tuning-serv...
do you have a wideband, I assume he will but it will be post cat so only of use at wide open really.
You need to get yourself a wideband to make life easy or you can tune on the short term fuel trims.
Best bet are a few options really
1.) if not already, get a widebamd, get on efilive and learn to tune. GelfVXR on here (and mikey) amongst others have tuned their LS2's. There is a guide on the efilive forum section which will be a sitcky. This is hard, it is a mountain to climb at first but will be your most rewarding, it will return the investment made in the efilive. It isnt something someone can quickly pick up and obviously you wont get much just tweaking the commanded afr under wot (wide open throttle). No coment passed on the tuner used. Once tuned, sell me your efi
2.) Speak to MF about popping down and getting a wortec map installed and a bit of tune up, throw away your efi (once tuned sell me your efilive) it should be fairly easy for them (in fact you could chose WP too but not sure if that would be best bet as its been all wortec install so MF makes sense)
3.) Seek out Oztrack - https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/remote-tuning-serv... - he will look at your specs send a custom map, let you log and return back. If you havea wideband it will be easier but he can do it off short term fuel trims too (old school way). I think Gareth (mym8v8 on here) might have something to do with them, not sure but worth an ask. Once you've done this, sell your efi to me
If you have time and patience and willing to learn, then option one is your frind. There are many on here who will help, i havent tuned in 5 years but once you learn its like riding a bike. If you do option one and just log and log and log, refining each time, you will end up with a tune optimised to your car but its a pain and the e40 is the hardest out of the 3 to tune but that doesnt mean it is hard
You need to get yourself a wideband to make life easy or you can tune on the short term fuel trims.
Best bet are a few options really
1.) if not already, get a widebamd, get on efilive and learn to tune. GelfVXR on here (and mikey) amongst others have tuned their LS2's. There is a guide on the efilive forum section which will be a sitcky. This is hard, it is a mountain to climb at first but will be your most rewarding, it will return the investment made in the efilive. It isnt something someone can quickly pick up and obviously you wont get much just tweaking the commanded afr under wot (wide open throttle). No coment passed on the tuner used. Once tuned, sell me your efi
2.) Speak to MF about popping down and getting a wortec map installed and a bit of tune up, throw away your efi (once tuned sell me your efilive) it should be fairly easy for them (in fact you could chose WP too but not sure if that would be best bet as its been all wortec install so MF makes sense)
3.) Seek out Oztrack - https://www.oztrack.com.au/shop/remote-tuning-serv... - he will look at your specs send a custom map, let you log and return back. If you havea wideband it will be easier but he can do it off short term fuel trims too (old school way). I think Gareth (mym8v8 on here) might have something to do with them, not sure but worth an ask. Once you've done this, sell your efi to me
If you have time and patience and willing to learn, then option one is your frind. There are many on here who will help, i havent tuned in 5 years but once you learn its like riding a bike. If you do option one and just log and log and log, refining each time, you will end up with a tune optimised to your car but its a pain and the e40 is the hardest out of the 3 to tune but that doesnt mean it is hard
PM me Mate. And send me a copy of the (modified and original) tune, I might (or not) be able to help.
If you are going for a remote tune try Pat Guerra, he's cheaper and appears to have a more scientific approach than others. (ETA remote tuners)
Before doing all that, you may well have a mechanical problem and you must be sure the guys installed the cam correctly, because the cam you fitted should be coming on strong from around 4k, not giving up.
ETA are you on the LS2 intake manifold?
If you are going for a remote tune try Pat Guerra, he's cheaper and appears to have a more scientific approach than others. (ETA remote tuners)
Before doing all that, you may well have a mechanical problem and you must be sure the guys installed the cam correctly, because the cam you fitted should be coming on strong from around 4k, not giving up.
ETA are you on the LS2 intake manifold?
Edited by MyM8V8 on Tuesday 23 December 11:38
stigmundfreud said:
ah arafs posted pretty much that but in a shorter way
try it yourslf but for now start logging your trims to learn whats going on.
Did I do good then? try it yourslf but for now start logging your trims to learn whats going on.
Mapping is a dark art to me, so can only point to what I have picked up from others here and elsewhere. It was Ringram that pointed out the Oztrack site, a couple of days ago.
this is what I love about this forum, the amount of guys that can and will help put you in the right direction is amazing! stig and araf, thanks again for the info, it's really appreciated, I'm going to start reading up on the efi live and see if I think its worth me trying as it is totally new to me (very scared of doing more damage than good right now, lol) but thanks for the links! stig if you want the efi live when I'm done just PM me and we'll sort it out. did you have a look at my cam spec? I researched this cam for months before I bought it and thought it ideal for the LS2? mym8v8, thanks for the offer of looking at the map, if I can work out how to do that I'll ping them down to you, would be great for a second opinion on how its looking.
mailer555 said:
this is what I love about this forum, the amount of guys that can and will help put you in the right direction is amazing! stig and araf, thanks again for the info, it's really appreciated, I'm going to start reading up on the efi live and see if I think its worth me trying as it is totally new to me (very scared of doing more damage than good right now, lol) but thanks for the links! stig if you want the efi live when I'm done just PM me and we'll sort it out. did you have a look at my cam spec? I researched this cam for months before I bought it and thought it ideal for the LS2? mym8v8, thanks for the offer of looking at the map, if I can work out how to do that I'll ping them down to you, would be great for a second opinion on how its looking.
I had a very similar cam but with 4 degrees of valve advance in my old LS2. Did he install the cam straight up? And did he measure for push rod length before he bunged the new cam in? If he used the old ones you might possibly be too short???Did you take a copy of the original tune before he mapped it? (No worries if he didn't as they're all on file) Use your Efilive V2 to pull the tune out, its quite easy, or if you want, bring the thing down to me one Saturday in the new year. TIP : If you are tuning your motor you need to keep your Efilive kit, it will be very useful, unless your need the cash.
stigmundfreud said:
no, once tuned he needs to sell it to me
Nice, but you wouldn't be really doing him a favour taking it off him while he has his Monaro?(Hindsight would have been wonderful?)
Mind you for the money you coughed up for the Z06, a couple hundred more for a new V2 doesn't sound expensive?
Edited by MyM8V8 on Tuesday 23 December 11:39
Im so tight I make richard look thrifty. mind you i sold my old one for more than i paid for it. The thing is, I know as soon as I get one I will start and that would be costly. I am still thinking about cams and stuff but seriously even with more hp I dont think its going to be much quicker, it wants to break lose as it is
If you decide to have a go yourself I've got a wideband lying around I still havent used I bought from ringram, you replace one of the o2 sensors with it and run the wiring up near the gearbox into the car. Sure I could arrange to let your borrow it for a couple of weeks which is usually all you need it fitted for. IIRC its the AutoVE tuning tutorial on the efilive website that is regarded as the best starting point for people wanting to get a good baseline tune installed themselves. Might also want to have a look at the custom OS one as well if you fancy mucking about with things like valet mode and such like (I've got a couple of spare pins for the ecu for the extra wire you need to run if you do go down that path). I've been promising myself for years I'll actually make proper use of my v1 and v2 efilive units - needless to say its like a few other projects (supercharger) that are still lying on floor waiting.
Well_Fans said:
If you decide to have a go yourself I've got a wideband lying around I still havent used I bought from ringram, you replace one of the o2 sensors with it and run the wiring up near the gearbox into the car. Sure I could arrange to let your borrow it for a couple of weeks which is usually all you need it fitted for. IIRC its the AutoVE tuning tutorial on the efilive website that is regarded as the best starting point for people wanting to get a good baseline tune installed themselves. Might also want to have a look at the custom OS one as well if you fancy mucking about with things like valet mode and such like (I've got a couple of spare pins for the ecu for the extra wire you need to run if you do go down that path). I've been promising myself for years I'll actually make proper use of my v1 and v2 efilive units - needless to say its like a few other projects (now obsolete supercharger) that are still lying on floor waiting.
indeed, its just mind boggling as it is. Sure it wont feel as urgent as if i had a charger but there are times when more would be less, i think this is that time. I'd do a cam purely for a lovely sound but as rich pointed out
power to weight is around 360bhp/ton and that is pleanty its basically what a vxr8 would require around the 680 mark to match
power to weight is around 360bhp/ton and that is pleanty its basically what a vxr8 would require around the 680 mark to match
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