Rise of the Phoenix
Discussion
ARAF said:
Is he the one that said "Put half a tiger in your tank" ???
If I'm reading right, then with this, you're looking for the opposite of what an expansion chamber does on a 2 stroke - ie making the primaries of a length where any exhaust pulse is unimpeded by those which come before, or after.
Correct, as the LS fires twice per bank the turbo cannot process each pulse before the next arrives once up to speed.If I'm reading right, then with this, you're looking for the opposite of what an expansion chamber does on a 2 stroke - ie making the primaries of a length where any exhaust pulse is unimpeded by those which come before, or after.
ARAF said:
Is he the one that said "Put half a tiger in your tank" ???
If I'm reading right, then with this, you're looking for the opposite of what an expansion chamber does on a 2 stroke - ie making the primaries of a length where any exhaust pulse is unimpeded by those which come before, or after.
If I'm reading right, then with this, you're looking for the opposite of what an expansion chamber does on a 2 stroke - ie making the primaries of a length where any exhaust pulse is unimpeded by those which come before, or after.
stevieturbo said:
When it seems they've went to length....to retain length, how come they haven't retained division to the flange, to then use a divided scroll ?
What you are seeing is the primary's to the turbo bracket mounting flange, not the turbo flange.I expect to see some form of divided scroll using ceramic technology within that add on extending into the headers you see, together with the waste gate architecture, obviously upstream of the turbo. The reason this is as an add rather than constructed into the manifold is for greater flexibility post build with regard to a component upgrade or sidestep. or if future kits are ordered, the flexibility for component downsizing for lower HP requirements.
This will be a truly modular build.
Fair play for wanting to do things your own way however, I have to ask, why go to so much effort and expense when Arnie and Stevie have built very powerful, fast motors for a fraction of the cost? For around £50, Arnie bought a 1200hp engine which is still running and for a further £27.50 John Sleath changed the whole rear end, fitted a roll cage and turned it into an automatic.
Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
wormus said:
Fair play for wanting to do things your own way however, I have to ask, why go to so much effort and expense when Arnie and Stevie have built very powerful, fast motors for a fraction of the cost? For around £50, Arnie bought a 1200hp engine which is still running and for a further £27.50 John Sleath changed the whole rear end, fitted a roll cage and turned it into an automatic.
Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
Ooh ooh Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
I Know, I Know
...Because He's Jez
And
Because it's There
And
Because He Can
wormus said:
Fair play for wanting to do things your own way however, I have to ask, why go to so much effort and expense when Arnie and Stevie have built very powerful, fast motors for a fraction of the cost? For around £50, Arnie bought a 1200hp engine which is still running and for a further £27.50 John Sleath changed the whole rear end, fitted a roll cage and turned it into an automatic.
Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
All very good questions.Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
Regards engine the only difference in cost is that of the labour and as I don't have the time then I'm happy to pay that.
This isn't my only project, at present I'm also working on the Firebird, a 1964 Mini Traveller, an R107 500SL ,a 456GT and a lovely Rover 800 Sterling so my time is best spent in the areas where I feel comfortable.
I want to try something different with the Monaro simply because I can take advantage of someone else's development at a tiny fraction of the cost plus my original kit is 500hp short of where I want to eventually be.
Regards the rear end setup, yes a solid beam axle is a very good choice for Arnies requirements and certainly if mine were similar I'd be beating a door to Johns as he's now got experience in that type of mod.
I will be changing the rear, not this year though as I want the engine and software development to be the focus. The company I intend to approach have experience in the arepa I wish to explore so as soon as I have a better understanding of the complexities of the mod I shall be contacting them.
I have no Mortgage, no kids and no one to leave the money to so I'm going to try and check out with a hole in my arse, this is a pretty good way to do that IMO.
Besides, I love the Monaro, it's the ONLY car I tolerate costing me money.
Edited by Xpuffin on Friday 27th November 09:23
wormus said:
Fair play for wanting to do things your own way however, I have to ask, why go to so much effort and expense when Arnie and Stevie have built very powerful, fast motors for a fraction of the cost? For around £50, Arnie bought a 1200hp engine which is still running and for a further £27.50 John Sleath changed the whole rear end, fitted a roll cage and turned it into an automatic.
Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
I didnt use scaffold pipe, I just used factory cast truck manifolds and welded an elbow/flange onto them for the turbo, and a takeoff for the wastegates.Stevie has manifolds he made himself from scaffold pipe and again his does the business.
Not at all knocking what you are doing, just curious to understand why go this route when there are obviously easier ways to achieve your objective.
I was largely dictated by space and access ( and cost ), but even at that I just couldnt find any compelling evidence to warrant going to tubular manifolds. Apparently there have been guys who've made 2000hp with truck manifolds. I've no doubt good tubular manifolds will be more efficient in that task, but value for money the simple OEM manifolds just cannot be beat and I'm amazed how well and efficiently they work for me.
Plus spark plug access etc is all very easy with OEM manifolds as well as other maintenance work. In fact it's a doddle to work around, I can even remove each turbo/manifold very quickly if need be.
AGP Turbo who do great kits for the Gen5 Camaros just retain OEM manifolds for their stuff and have no problems making lots of power too. They do some really nice stuff.
Obviously for a kit to sell or market though, nice tubular manifolds will be in some ways easier to sell because of the visuals.
However you support them, use rose joints or something that still allows them to grow/shrink, whilst keeping as much weight off them as possible. Much akin to an old Cossie turbo damper perhaps.
Some of that weight support can of course come from the turbo downpipe area too.
As for any rear end changes, at all costs I would avoid the live axle if you drive it often. They just arent as nice as an IRS. It's one thing I'd love to change on my own car, but it would be a huge expense for me to do that so I'm stuck with what I have.
And depending on engine size/power/boost goals a little bigger than GT35's may be called for, they have a fairly small turbine wheel.
stevieturbo said:
And depending on engine size/power/boost goals a little bigger than GT35's may be called for, they have a fairly small turbine wheel.
The turbos aren't off the shelf, running a 1.06 turbine if memory serves plus upgraded bearings and seals and blueprinted.However, you may be right, which is why a modular build is paramount.
Turbo Dynamics mention them on their site http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/media/blog/turbo-dy...
Xpuffin said:
I have no Mortgage, no kids
That's all you needed to say 
So that sort of implies you are going for 1400hp? Should be very interesting to see how the LS7 copes with that, sounds similar to the Hennessey Venom. What transmission/gearing have you settled on?
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 27th November 14:08
wormus said:
That's all you needed to say
So that sort of implies you are going for 1400hp? Should be very interesting to see how the LS7 copes with that, sounds similar to the Hennessey Venom. What transmission/gearing have you settled on?
No not that much, possibly only what I had before plus a bit, but under stressed due to the nature of its useage.So that sort of implies you are going for 1400hp? Should be very interesting to see how the LS7 copes with that, sounds similar to the Hennessey Venom. What transmission/gearing have you settled on?
Edited by wormus on Friday 27th November 14:08
Transmission wise it's still at the selection stage, there's one clear candidate but no winner yet.
That's not scheduled for this winter though, more likely winter 2016. So initially existing running gear incl clutch so limited by those factors.
Xpuffin said:
The turbos aren't off the shelf, running a 1.06 turbine if memory serves plus upgraded bearings and seals and blueprinted.
However, you may be right, which is why a modular build is paramount.
That's just the turbine housing, the GT35 frame still use a fairly small turbine wheel.However, you may be right, which is why a modular build is paramount.
If using a smaller engine all good, but if you're going for the likes of a 427, I'd want a bigger turbine.
Arnie's turbos used a much larger turbine and similar compressor, mine would have a larger compressor than both and turbine in the middle of the two and I'm only 6.3
I'd nearly be tempted to go bigger on both turbine and compressor at some point but I'm sure there's a bit more left in what I have.
I didnt bother with ballbearing, although would have liked it. Again any benefits vs performance for any added cost...just werent there for me plus most want water and oil for each turbo.
I just kept it simple and only needed oil. Precision turbo make some great BB units that only need oil....but reliability seems hit or miss on the US forums, especially when used on larger engines so I went for BW.
Xpuffin said:
No not that much, possibly only what I had before plus a bit, but under stressed due to the nature of its useage.
Transmission wise it's still at the selection stage, there's one clear candidate but no winner yet.
That's not scheduled for this winter though, more likely winter 2016. So initially existing running gear incl clutch so limited by those factors.
Basic Magnums seem to be holding up well, and the ratios work.Transmission wise it's still at the selection stage, there's one clear candidate but no winner yet.
That's not scheduled for this winter though, more likely winter 2016. So initially existing running gear incl clutch so limited by those factors.
I'm amazed my pretty standard T56 is still hanging together, even the ACT organic doesnt seem to have any problems coping but there do seem to be some very nice newer options for clutches.
The likes of PPG gears for the box will probably be stronger...I just think their ratio choices suck for anyone who actually needs to go fast.
If you fix that with a very tall diff, then it leaves 1st gear very tall too.
Hope this doesn't sound patronising, but are you going to learn how to drive a 1400-hp car first? Only saying, because 900-hp is bugger all by comparison. Give you an idea, I can pull the car up onto one wheel with that sort of power. Half the reason I took to driving at York Raceway is because the surface is so poor. It makes it a great place to learn how to minimise the risk of a big off.
As for the size of the turbos, mine were so big that the inner wings were cut to fit them in. I now run 82mm turbos on the Audi. They'd never fit a Monaro engine bay.
BTW please fit a cage and wear a harness.
Wormus - you know my setup cost £65.50...
As for the size of the turbos, mine were so big that the inner wings were cut to fit them in. I now run 82mm turbos on the Audi. They'd never fit a Monaro engine bay.
BTW please fit a cage and wear a harness.
Wormus - you know my setup cost £65.50...
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