Thoughts and help on engine upgrades.

[Behold81]

So I have sourced some ls6 heads and ls6 intake for the ls1 (early model ls1) and before fitting ordering if I should do anything else at the same time. CAM seems sensible so assuming lifters too make sense. Worth doing the Pistons? Or leave them for now?

Also any good articles or companies to lightly port/polish my heads? Also best source for gaskets.

Thanks.

[gsd2000]

if your going to do the pistons at a later date then maybe fit head studs as they are reusable

Uprated timing chain and timing chain guide might be wise depending on mileage

[KMud]

Unless you are going mega-lift, just upgrade the trunnions. The cam will want pushrods and valvesprings.

gsd2000 said:

if your going to do the pistons at a later date then maybe fit head studs as they are reusable

Uprated timing chain and timing chain guide might be wise depending on mileage

I did ARP studs, probably a good idea if you are sentencing yourself to a lifetime of valvespring changes...

Chain is good too, I fitted an LS2 one and a LS2 chain damper (on an adapter bracket for LS1). Oil pump an idea too? I just milled my LS2 heads flat and fitted cometic gaskets (from Summit).

[stevieturbo]

Behold81 said:

So I have sourced some ls6 heads and ls6 intake for the ls1 (early model ls1) and before fitting ordering if I should do anything else at the same time. CAM seems sensible so assuming lifters too make sense. Worth doing the Pistons? Or leave them for now?

Also any good articles or companies to lightly port/polish my heads? Also best source for gaskets.

Thanks.

Engine in car or out of car ?

Just use OEM gaskets, although the only ones that need replaced are head gaskets. Everything else is re-usable unless they've been damaged.

[Behold81]

Not sure if the engine will be out yet. Might be an idea if I'm doing a lot.

Engine is 110k so chain is a good idea and water pump. Was only going to do had gaskets. Had forgot about bolts. So studs make sense.

Also can then do Pistons and cam at the same time maybe. Although if doing chain and pump surely easier to cam then?

Oil pump is sump off???

[stevieturbo]

Behold81 said:

Not sure if the engine will be out yet. Might be an idea if I'm doing a lot.

Engine is 110k so chain is a good idea and water pump. Was only going to do had gaskets. Had forgot about bolts. So studs make sense.

Also can then do Pistons and cam at the same time maybe. Although if doing chain and pump surely easier to cam then?

Oil pump is sump off???

If you arent taking the engine out or sump off...then pistons will be rather impractical.
Even the oil pump will be awkward with the sump in place.

But you wont be able to change the cam gear/chain with the oil pump in place anyway

So really...if you're unbolting the pump, may as well change it.

Pistons largely make sense simply as the OEM ones arent that robust, but the sump needs to come off for that...and then do you change bearings ? lol

Where does it end ? Although big end bearings arent that expensive...although with 110k...main bearings would make sense too. Although whilst I'm sure changing these is possible with the block in-situ, it would be a lot easier with it removed

work can easily snowball from something that doesnt need done...to lots of stuff that's nice to do because it's convenient at the time. Depends on budget and patience really.

[monkfish1]

Behold81 said:

So I have sourced some ls6 heads and ls6 intake for the ls1 (early model ls1) and before fitting ordering if I should do anything else at the same time. CAM seems sensible so assuming lifters too make sense. Worth doing the Pistons? Or leave them for now?

Also any good articles or companies to lightly port/polish my heads? Also best source for gaskets.

Thanks.

Is it still supercharged? A cam is a given if you want to make the excersise worthwhile.

The cam chain is probably a good idea if you are going in that deep. You can just about do this. If you undo the sump and let it sit on the subframe, you can access the pickup pipe bolt. But DONT drop it! You can then get the pump off if you take the pump cover off and remove the rotor first.

As above, you will need new head bolts/studs.

[MyM8V8]

My 2p's worth:

Check the guides are OK in the LS6 heads. Check/lap the seats.

Comp 218 valve springs, seals and locks.

ARP head studs.

Katech C5R single row timing chain.

Hi flow oil pump.

After market trunnion rocker bearings or there is a set of 1.8 Harland Sharp roller rockers in PH ads.

CTSV racing lifters.

Set of Mahle forged pistons from MF (£399 + VAT)

[bimbleuk]

Having recently done a not too dissimilar upgrade as the OP.

243 heads (skimmed)
GM gaskets/bolts
222/224 cam
Springs
Valve guides
Trunnion upgrade
push rods
injectors etc.

I've got the following to fit to the bottom

Improved Racing scraper + baffle
Timing chain
Oil pump port or replace

I was thinking of maybe 2 part timing cover as I know I'll probably fit another cam later. Anyone have any experience of those?

[KMud]

bimbleuk said:

Having recently done a not too dissimilar upgrade as the OP.

243 heads (skimmed)
GM gaskets/bolts
222/224 cam
Springs
Valve guides
Trunnion upgrade
push rods
injectors etc.

I've got the following to fit to the bottom

Improved Racing scraper + baffle
Timing chain
Oil pump port or replace

I was thinking of maybe 2 part timing cover as I know I'll probably fit another cam later. Anyone have any experience of those?

Valve guides, or just the seals? I did seals, but the OE guides seemed fine.

Didn't Gurmeet do the 2 part cover?

[gsd2000]

i think ive got some comp 918's in the shed.

[Behold81]

Wow. That's a lot of info! Thanks guys. I want a cam to make the most. Need some help with the spec for that.

I'm more and more tempted at engine out. Then this goes so far I think the other option is a short block and swap. As said it all spirals.

The heads came with some stock ratio roller rockers which I either sell and upgrade or use. If I do the CAM the chain is being done at the same time. I think I'll stud the heads (makes sense).

Will make some more comments when by a pc tomorrow.

[Boosted LS1]

If the engines staying 'atmo' then the pistons should be fine just so long as the mappings really good. Detonation will crack piston crowns and even the cylinders if you're unlucky. With your block that would be a write off economically.

You could fit a set of ARP conrod bolts for peace of mind if the sumps off and fresh shells at the same time. Compared to O/E bolts the weight difference is minimal but the gains are huge.

If you do strip the engine then fresh rings and a hone may be beneficial depending on wear. I wouldn't change pistons, pins, rings etc unless you've compared the weights with your existing parts. It's not hard to weigh these parts. If the weights are different you'll need a crank balance job for reliability.

I have the stock weights here if ever you need to compare.

Check you have a good oil seal on the oil pump pick up and that it's the right one. You really need the sump off if you're changing the oil pump as you need to make sure the oil pick up gets inserted into the oil pump safely/correctly. A failure here could cause poor oil supply to the engine.

Edited by Boosted LS1 on Monday 23 February 22:23

[bimbleuk]

KMud said:

Valve guides, or just the seals? I did seals, but the OE guides seemed fine.

Didn't Gurmeet do the 2 part cover?

Typo as it was seals when I installed some dual springs and checked the installed height.

[ArnieVXR]

What you need to be careful of is doing what I've just done with an LS2 that I bought off eBay.

Replaced the heads with GM CNC ported LS3 items
Replaced the cam with a custom grind from John Sleath
Replaced the crank with a 4.100" Callies stroker (swapping the reluctor for a 24x piece)
Replaced the rods with forged ones from SCAT
Replaced the pistons with forged ones from Mahle (and new rings)
Replaced the intake with a FAST LSXR unit and the TB with a FAST 102mm unit
Replaced the fuel rails with FAST rails
Replaced the injectors with higher capacity units

So all that's left is the block, oil pump, water pump, timing chains, push rods, cam followers and a few sensors.

And I'm thinking I should change a few of those bits too now.

A nice engine, but would have been cheaper to sell the old LS2 complete and buy a new engine...

[Behold81]

So a bit more info is that the car is boosted with a Centri and long term a larger Centri. I have water injection to reduce pre det and a big enough intercooler that seems to keep intake temps down quite well. (I never breached 100 after several 1/4 runs in the middle of summer) I'm running a 1 7/8 headers in to 3.5 collectors and 2.5 exhaust. with this a CAM is almost a must.

reading through there is a lot of common parts being mentioned. Its all going to happen so no reason to not do a lot of it at once.
So here is what I have right now.

I have LS6 intake and heads with Yella Terra Roller 1.7's included to be fitted to the car.

Reading what you have all said I'm thinking:

Use the YT for now and maybe then upgrade my old LS1 rockers in the future and swap.
Clean, Port and light polish on the heads. (Tempted to look at increasing the chamber a little if possible to reduce compression)
Port/polish my TB.

This makes a good increase and being blown will be more than enough without breaking the bank.

Then buy the following for now as I do the upgrade:

Uprated Springs (Type TBD)
CAM (Spec to be discussed)
New Lifters and Rods
Head Studs
Conrod bolts as its an easy job
New uprated oil pump (This is preferable I'm sure on an early LS1)
New Chain and Guides (Better to be replaced than use old tat)
New Water Pump (Seems sensible and tempted with an LS2 with a slight pull on the pulley or an aftermarket with boltable pulley as the belt is a b!tch to get on with my 8.5 charger pulley on.)
Not sure a need for split timing plate although if cheap enough.

That then leaves pistons and bottom end for a rainy day. I might look at a new(old) block and build it up at leisure and swap out. Plus I want a new diff first!

The question is what to get of each to minimise spend without buying chocolate parts. I have a contact well known here for BTR parts. 918 springs and studs so that eases a lot.

I will start another thread on CAMs once I have fully read up on it. The benefit is the car is a toy/hobby so it does not need to be too tame! and I would rather spend a bit more and build it myself then buy it prebuilt off the shelf. the benefit is the savings on labour.

Tuning the car after is fine as I'm getting quite good with EFI live so that should be fine. Obviously gaskets that need replacing will be done.

Does that sound sensible? or am I missing something?

[Boosted LS1]

If you want to lower your compression and retain intake capability 317 heads will do the trick. I used to use them years ago but they may be hard to find nowadays. You can put your ls6 valves into them etc. it's also a reversible swop if you don't like it.

[MyM8V8]

Boosted LS1 said:

If you want to lower your compression and retain intake capability 317 heads will do the trick. I used to use them years ago but they may be hard to find nowadays. You can put your ls6 valves into them etc. it's also a reversible swop if you don't like it.

He could also just put some thicker head gaskets in to lower CR. He already shelled out for the LS6's.

[MyM8V8]

Behold81 said:

So a bit more info is that the car is boosted with a Centri and long term a larger Centri. I have water injection to reduce pre det and a big enough intercooler that seems to keep intake temps down quite well. (I never breached 100 after several 1/4 runs in the middle of summer) I'm running a 1 7/8 headers in to 3.5 collectors and 2.5 exhaust. with this a CAM is almost a must.

reading through there is a lot of common parts being mentioned. Its all going to happen so no reason to not do a lot of it at once.
So here is what I have right now.

I have LS6 intake and heads with Yella Terra Roller 1.7's included to be fitted to the car.

Reading what you have all said I'm thinking:

Use the YT for now and maybe then upgrade my old LS1 rockers in the future and swap.
Clean, Port and light polish on the heads. (Tempted to look at increasing the chamber a little if possible to reduce compression)
Port/polish my TB.

This makes a good increase and being blown will be more than enough without breaking the bank.

Then buy the following for now as I do the upgrade:

Uprated Springs (Type TBD)
CAM (Spec to be discussed)
New Lifters and Rods
Head Studs
Conrod bolts as its an easy job
New uprated oil pump (This is preferable I'm sure on an early LS1)
New Chain and Guides (Better to be replaced than use old tat)
New Water Pump (Seems sensible and tempted with an LS2 with a slight pull on the pulley or an aftermarket with boltable pulley as the belt is a b!tch to get on with my 8.5 charger pulley on.)
Not sure a need for split timing plate although if cheap enough.

That then leaves pistons and bottom end for a rainy day. I might look at a new(old) block and build it up at leisure and swap out. Plus I want a new diff first!

The question is what to get of each to minimise spend without buying chocolate parts. I have a contact well known here for BTR parts. 918 springs and studs so that eases a lot.

I will start another thread on CAMs once I have fully read up on it. The benefit is the car is a toy/hobby so it does not need to be too tame! and I would rather spend a bit more and build it myself then buy it prebuilt off the shelf. the benefit is the savings on labour.

Tuning the car after is fine as I'm getting quite good with EFI live so that should be fine. Obviously gaskets that need replacing will be done.

Does that sound sensible? or am I missing something?

Just check out your YT's to make sure they wern't in that bad batch.
A word for the wise, don't go mad with the cam, you don't need to.

Good Luck with the build, should be worth while.

[monkfish1]

MyM8V8 said:

Just check out your YT's to make sure they wern't in that bad batch.
A word for the wise, don't go mad with the cam, you don't need to.

Good Luck with the build, should be worth while.

WHS^^^^^