In a Heartbeat

Author
Discussion

MyM8V8

9,456 posts

194 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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minime68 said:
BHP figures. Doesn't really matter to be honest as the car ran really well at Pod. That was the only pass I got so I definitely think I could get my terminal closer to 140mph with meth and a proper 102mm intake. If no one picks it up then I will be at pod in March looking to get into the low 10s maybe 9s with a small shot of nitrous.

The plugs were NGK TR6 on the dyno. Swapped them out for TR7ix and the car runs MUCH better now and at the strip.
If you get the 9's that would be a great achievement for a heavy old road car, and if you can do that, why bother with the turbo set up?.

I'm going to check what plugs I'm running, as I've never even changed a plug let alone melted one.

minime68

399 posts

134 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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To be honest. I have no idea I'm just going for more.... I thought 556hp was enough but it obviously wasn't. This is like a drug really bad habit

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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Must say that the level of traction you have is more impressive than the power (which is pretty impressive in its own right). I had to make a lot of mods to pull low tens in my Monaro.

I think you'll be disappointed with turbos if you don't get yourself an auto with a transbrake and a bump box. They'll spoil your 60-foot time due to the need to spool them properly. Start playing with the gas would be my advice.

wormus

14,509 posts

202 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all

I saw this from another thread posted recently comparing TVS to Heartbeat on the same engine. Seems the only advantage on the Heartbeat is mildly better cooling. Not amazing tbh.


TVS2300 / heartbeat
2500rpm 210hp / 240hp
3000rpm 295hp / 315hp
3500rpm 345hp / 375hp
4000rpm 390hp / 435hp
4500rpm 435hp / 500hp
5000rpm 505hp / 565hp
5500rpm 600hp / 600hp
6000rpm 625hp / 650hp


TVS2300 / heartbeat
2500rpm 440ft.lb / 500ft.lb
3000rpm 520ft.lb / 540ft.lb
3500rpm 520ft.lb / 570ft.lb
4000rpm 510ft.lb / 570ft.lb
4500rpm 515ft.lb / 580ft.lb
5000rpm 530ft.lb / 580ft.lb
5500rpm 570ft.lb / 570ft.lb
6000rpm 550ft.lb / 570ft.lb

ARAF

20,759 posts

222 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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I think you're missing the mid range, which is where it happens in the real world. 60lb/ft and 60bhp is over 10% gain.

wormus

14,509 posts

202 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
ARAF said:
I think you're missing the mid range, which is where it happens in the real world. 60lb/ft and 60bhp is over 10% gain.
60ft/lb is about the same as the difference between a moderate to satisfying fart. In a 1700kg car? fk all.

ARAF

20,759 posts

222 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
wormus said:
ARAF said:
I think you're missing the mid range, which is where it happens in the real world. 60lb/ft and 60bhp is over 10% gain.
60ft/lb is about the same as the difference between a moderate to satisfying fart. In a 1700kg car? fk all.
11 times fk all compared to 10 times fk all then. hehe

Not worth changing from a TVS2300, but few will go for the older technology when the new is a similar price.

MyM8V8

9,456 posts

194 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
ARAF said:
I think you're missing the mid range, which is where it happens in the real world. 60lb/ft and 60bhp is over 10% gain.
The extra on the low to mid range would certainly get you moving quicker.

I'd want to see the reduction in IATS, but I suspect from those high end figures that they are rising at the top, as the motor begins to pull timing accordingly, to even things out between the two. Its the same rotor pack after all and its a roots blower after all, so you cannot defy the laws of physics at the end of the day.

Whether the gain is worth the extra to change from a 2300 looks doubtful.

MyM8V8

9,456 posts

194 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
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raving said:
I ll stick to the Whipple
You need to cash that in asap! wink

wormus

14,509 posts

202 months

Wednesday 29th July 2015
quotequote all
MyM8V8 said:
You need to cash that in asap! wink
I think you should look at what Stevie has done with low mounted turbos. He could be on to something.




Edited by wormus on Wednesday 29th July 22:33

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Must say that the level of traction you have is more impressive than the power (which is pretty impressive in its own right). I had to make a lot of mods to pull low tens in my Monaro.

I think you'll be disappointed with turbos if you don't get yourself an auto with a transbrake and a bump box. They'll spoil your 60-foot time due to the need to spool them properly. Start playing with the gas would be my advice.
If he's using decent drag radials ( or better still full slicks ) at a drag strip, then I dont see traction being a major issue. He's making good power, so running 10's would be a doddle assuming nothing breaks.

Obviously an auto will help 60fts and 1/4's in general, but it certainly isnt essential. And you certainly dont need an auto or transbrake to launch with turbos.

I could make enough boost at launch to grenade the engine/drivetrain if I wanted, you just need proper control over the engine etc to achieve it.

minime68

399 posts

134 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
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Correct Stevie. If I go TT then a two step launch controller would be in the mix. I have a buyer in the U.S. So likely this will be the route I go. Twin PT6266 is what I'm leaning towards at the moment.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
minime68 said:
Correct Stevie. If I go TT then a two step launch controller would be in the mix. I have a buyer in the U.S. So likely this will be the route I go. Twin PT6266 is what I'm leaning towards at the moment.
Whilst I've used and had great success with PT on 4cyl cars with their BB units, when you read the US forums, their reliability on twin applications on larger engines....really does seem hit or miss. TBH it almost seems more miss ! Although I think that is more the oil journal stuff, dont see to many using the BB cores.
But I do think a lot of people run units far too small for the intended application, but I've also read some of the PT stuff use very small and inherently weak shafts.

That's what put me off using them even though I could get them locally easily. I opted for the BW's, they're a little bigger in size...but few doubts about quality or reliability.

AGP Turbo also seem to offer a huge range of BW stuff, with their own turbine/compressor housings in some cases to make them moire compact, or better flowing. They arent expensive at all
Although some of their power claims from the smaller units, just seem hard to believe.

wormus

14,509 posts

202 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
What about Garrett?

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
If he's using decent drag radials ( or better still full slicks ) at a drag strip, then I dont see traction being a major issue. He's making good power, so running 10's would be a doddle assuming nothing breaks.

Obviously an auto will help 60fts and 1/4's in general, but it certainly isnt essential. And you certainly dont need an auto or transbrake to launch with turbos.

I could make enough boost at launch to grenade the engine/drivetrain if I wanted, you just need proper control over the engine etc to achieve it.
Makes me wonder why only two forum cars have ran tens, as there's lots of high power builds out there.

I think for RWYB you can spool at your leisure. For competitive racing, my experience is that the tree won't wait for you. Hence the need to pre-stage, spool and then bump into stage.

minime68

399 posts

134 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Makes me wonder why only two forum cars have ran tens, as there's lots of high power builds out there.

I think for RWYB you can spool at your leisure. For competitive racing, my experience is that the tree won't wait for you. Hence the need to pre-stage, spool and then bump into stage.
The tree won't affect your ET though. Drag Radials definitely affect my times by almost a second.

MyM8V8

9,456 posts

194 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
stevieturbo said:
If he's using decent drag radials ( or better still full slicks ) at a drag strip, then I dont see traction being a major issue. He's making good power, so running 10's would be a doddle assuming nothing breaks.

Obviously an auto will help 60fts and 1/4's in general, but it certainly isnt essential. And you certainly dont need an auto or transbrake to launch with turbos.

I could make enough boost at launch to grenade the engine/drivetrain if I wanted, you just need proper control over the engine etc to achieve it.
Makes me wonder why only two forum cars have ran tens, as there's lots of high power builds out there.
Because they've all been running on road tyres. That's why.

I'll be heading for the pod after TR with the GTS to see what it will do with some sticky stuff ont back.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
Makes me wonder why only two forum cars have ran tens, as there's lots of high power builds out there.

I think for RWYB you can spool at your leisure. For competitive racing, my experience is that the tree won't wait for you. Hence the need to pre-stage, spool and then bump into stage.
As others say, how many have actually used decent tyres ? I dont think any have apart from minime.

On even decent tyres say medium 888's or equivalent Kumho, I can only manage at best low 11's, but usually mid-high 11's at any venue.

Change that to even the lesser drag radials like Nitto's, and low-mid 10's will be a doddle. The first time I ever used Nitto's about 8-9 years ago, my first run was a 10.5.
Tyres make a huge difference. So I'm not a bit surprised so few have run 10's

As for power, that could be debated but trap speeds should still give some sort of indication as to how genuine any figures are.

As for competing. The tree doesnt need to wait, in about 1/2 a second after nailing the throttle, I'll be sitting at my chosen launch rpm/boost setting. That's ample time for almost any tree.
Choose the right ecu and there is no problem.

But most here arent competing in actual racing anyway ?

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
wormus said:
What about Garrett?
There are many makes of turbo. I chose what I felt gave best all rounder for me. But Garrett do have some good units too, perhaps just less of a range than others though, and I dont really think they are leading the market by any means.
Lots of Garrets want oil and water, I wanted to avoid that, as it just means more pipes in a very confined space. So it had to be oil supply/return only. That ruled out any Garrett BB unit, and a lot of oil journals.

I also in part deliberately chose the BW because of their larger frame. It may seem silly...but a friend had a couple of S366's sitting so I used them for mock up which was handy. I figured if I can make these fit, then it should cover me to fit almost any turbo I'd ever need. The ones I used were smaller than those though but I have room to grow if need be.

If I fabricated everything with a smaller unit in mind, if I did want to go bigger it would be a complete ballache trying to re-do everything to make them fit.

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Thursday 30th July 2015
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
As for competing. The tree doesnt need to wait, in about 1/2 a second after nailing the throttle, I'll be sitting at my chosen launch rpm/boost setting. That's ample time for almost any tree.
All I can say is your turbos are clearly too small wink

I spend a few seconds working mine to the desired level of boost. I've accidentally fully staged a couple of times and found that there's no way I can get to spool up before the amber flashes up frown