Forced Induction Interchillers
Discussion
stevieturbo said:
Tuning will need rechecked.
If charge do drop subsantially...which they likely will, you'll need to ensure any air temp corrections were...correct, and that all tuning is good as it will need more fuel.
And in many respects air temp correction cannot be totally relied upon, as most air temp sensors are pretty slow responding.
Surprised more people havent used that setup though, as it seems pretty good.
Hadn’t really thought about AFR which I think is what you’re saying rather than timing? Probably worth a trip to the dyno, which given what they do, and the fact they use Wortec, who tuned it originally, shouldn’t be a problem. If charge do drop subsantially...which they likely will, you'll need to ensure any air temp corrections were...correct, and that all tuning is good as it will need more fuel.
And in many respects air temp correction cannot be totally relied upon, as most air temp sensors are pretty slow responding.
Surprised more people havent used that setup though, as it seems pretty good.
If timing is tuned with safe levels for hot air.
Chilling the air will cause no harm
However increasing air density with lots of cool air...will require more fuel. Tuning WILL need re-checked.
And after a friend recently did a lot of thermocouple and air temp sensor testing.....it's shocking how slow a "fast acting ACT" sensor actually is !
More like a ridiculously slow acting sensor lol
Chilling the air will cause no harm
However increasing air density with lots of cool air...will require more fuel. Tuning WILL need re-checked.
And after a friend recently did a lot of thermocouple and air temp sensor testing.....it's shocking how slow a "fast acting ACT" sensor actually is !
More like a ridiculously slow acting sensor lol
This will be an interesting install, being supercharged myself you do lose power on hot days but I have always accepted this due to the ridiculous position of the charger and heat soak.
Always wondered about the centrifugal chargers before I had mine fitted, but after much research I believe the positive displacement chargers to be more instant on acceleration which is what I wanted, therefore went for the Magnuson.
Wormus so I understand is the cooler a plate to plate method? For example the refridgrient runs as the primary circuit through the cooler then the water runs as a secondary through the charger, or does the refridgrient run through the charger?
Also the pictures I have seen show the pipes frosted going to the charger, what happens when you switch of surely those pipes condense on the outside therefore creating drops of condensate dripping down to the lower regions of the engine bay?
Sorry for all the questions, Stevie could you explain more about the remapping please In more detail if possible.
Always wondered about the centrifugal chargers before I had mine fitted, but after much research I believe the positive displacement chargers to be more instant on acceleration which is what I wanted, therefore went for the Magnuson.
Wormus so I understand is the cooler a plate to plate method? For example the refridgrient runs as the primary circuit through the cooler then the water runs as a secondary through the charger, or does the refridgrient run through the charger?
Also the pictures I have seen show the pipes frosted going to the charger, what happens when you switch of surely those pipes condense on the outside therefore creating drops of condensate dripping down to the lower regions of the engine bay?
Sorry for all the questions, Stevie could you explain more about the remapping please In more detail if possible.
The chiller contains a separate circuit for refrigerant which cools the fluid in the charge cooler circuit. Theory is any condensation will evaporate quickly from the residual heat from the engine.
Cooler, denser air (I.e IAT < 0 deg C) contains more oxygen which in theory could make the air/fuel ratio lean if the tune hasn’t been adjusted to compensate. Might be able to get a few degrees of timing back too hopefully.
https://fiinterchillers.com/why-does-my-tuner-want...
Cooler, denser air (I.e IAT < 0 deg C) contains more oxygen which in theory could make the air/fuel ratio lean if the tune hasn’t been adjusted to compensate. Might be able to get a few degrees of timing back too hopefully.
https://fiinterchillers.com/why-does-my-tuner-want...
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 27th December 10:25
wormus said:
The chiller contains a separate circuit for refrigerant which cools the fluid in the charge cooler circuit. Theory is any condensation will evaporate quickly from the residual heat from the engine.
Cooler, denser air (I.e IAT < 0 deg C) contains more oxygen which in theory could make the air/fuel ratio lean if the tune hasn’t been adjusted to compensate. Might be able to get a few degrees of timing back too hopefully.
https://fiinterchillers.com/why-does-my-tuner-want...
As I thought separate circuit, seems a no brainer to me to have one fitted, will speak with MW performance in the new year.Cooler, denser air (I.e IAT < 0 deg C) contains more oxygen which in theory could make the air/fuel ratio lean if the tune hasn’t been adjusted to compensate. Might be able to get a few degrees of timing back too hopefully.
https://fiinterchillers.com/why-does-my-tuner-want...
Edited by wormus on Friday 27th December 10:25
Wormus when are you having done and could you post pictures of install?
stu vxr said:
Always wondered about the centrifugal chargers before I had mine fitted, but after much research I believe the positive displacement chargers to be more instant on acceleration which is what I wanted, therefore went for the Magnuson.
On a car up to around say 6-650hp...I would say that the Maggie style is probably better. But that's only because it will give a wider spread of torque so may feel faster under most circumstances with that power. Certainly for a daily.But a centri does offer instant acceleration. Even if it may not appear to be making boost lower down, it is still moving air, and it is still assisting with making power.
The difference between running the exact same engine with and without blower even in all off boost areas...is still huge.
And adding turbos then makes that difference felt even more becoming more soggy. ( of course that too will depend on size of turbos etc etc )
As for tuning....of course the engine needs tuned properly under all circumstances it will be run.
So it will need tuned for performance with the chiller active...but tuning will also need checked with it inactive to ensure it is all safe under both circumstances.
So with an OEM ecu setup...there are more likely to be compromises somewhere, as this will vary depending on what temperatures etc are being monitored and can be used for safety purposes.
Think for me the tune is key, and that could cost probably as much as the kit itself, certainly interested in the outcome as no one with a Monaro seems to have had this done, if so haven't seen a report.
I wonder how much better this is than water injection think the fish did a few of those, curious also why they never did any chillers.
I want this chiller to be a success and i am looking forward to the write up.
I wonder how much better this is than water injection think the fish did a few of those, curious also why they never did any chillers.
I want this chiller to be a success and i am looking forward to the write up.
The tune doesn’t need to cost that much as it’s just time on the dyno to adjust a couple of tables.
A couple of us have chillers but results can vary according to individual set up and blower/intercooler efficiency, it’s one of the reasons I’m going for a larger tank and faster pump. The increase in temp at WOT is about the same as no chiller but you start at a much cooler starting point. To my knowledge, nobody on here has tried with a TVS2300.
Meth/water injection has also been tried with mixed results. On PD blowers, those who tried lost power.
I’m expecting about 40-50hp at the wheels but more importantly, more consistent performance whether ambient temperature is hot or cold. Currently in 30 deg C ambient, I lose a lot of power and heat soak is horrible which is what I’m looking to fix. I’d also put in blower spacer plates but I don’t have the room under the bonnet.
A couple of us have chillers but results can vary according to individual set up and blower/intercooler efficiency, it’s one of the reasons I’m going for a larger tank and faster pump. The increase in temp at WOT is about the same as no chiller but you start at a much cooler starting point. To my knowledge, nobody on here has tried with a TVS2300.
Meth/water injection has also been tried with mixed results. On PD blowers, those who tried lost power.
I’m expecting about 40-50hp at the wheels but more importantly, more consistent performance whether ambient temperature is hot or cold. Currently in 30 deg C ambient, I lose a lot of power and heat soak is horrible which is what I’m looking to fix. I’d also put in blower spacer plates but I don’t have the room under the bonnet.
Escy said:
If you were building a water to air charger cooler system from scratch and wanted to use a system like this, is adding a radiator at the front worth while or a waste of time?
I asked for my front heat exchanger to be removed as it will actually warm things up. Without it, it means I get the same IATs no matter what the weather is doing.
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