New Mustang how will it compare?

New Mustang how will it compare?

Author
Discussion

granada203028

Original Poster:

1,482 posts

196 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
So finally we have another right hand drive "muscle car" we can actually buy in the UK - the Mustang. So how will it compare to the Monaro? Outwardly we have two cars of about the same power to weight ratio, 400 BHP and 1.7 Tonnes. So we have to look deeper into the detail.



So the biggest difference is in the gearbox. We know how import gearing is, the 2004 Monaros were criticised for being over geared and this was addressed on the 2005 6.0 using the shorter M12 set rather than the earlier MM6. The Mustang is offered in the USA with a choice of rear ends, 3.31, 3.55 (assumed here for the UK) and 3.73.

Traditionally car performance is measured against the clock, 0 to 60 and quarter mile times. These are easy to measure but not the direct "shove in the back" the driver actually feels. Today of course we have an app on our phone. Acceleration performance can be calculated from:

Acceleration = Torque x Gear ratio x Final drive ratio/Weight x Rolling radius

Crunching the numbers the Mustang has the Monaro beaten by a surprising margin, all down to it's gearing.



So on the road the Mustang will leap ahead and then maintain a small advantage as pure power to weight ratio comes into play. The Mustang will eat up its gears much quicker which may enhance the subjective experience. I have an 05 CV8 though with the M12 box retrofitted. So the Mustang should show a further 7% or so improvement over what I'm used to.

The Ford "Coyote" engine gives away a whole litre to the GM LS2 but achieves the same torque through all the modern tricks of variable valve timing, 4 valves per cylinder etc. The GM unit is perhaps much truer to the muscle car concept though, being a classic ohv 2 valve design. It will be interesting to see how they compare on low end torque where the cubes may count more than the technology. Certainly my car has a lovely old school flexibility about it.

The Mustang appears good value for money at £33K, the Monaro 6.0 was £37K and we have had 28% inflation over the last 10 years. Most of us would have enjoyed a similar earnings increase. In real terms the Mustang is 30% cheaper then.

I look forward to reading a UK instrumented road test, if any one sees one please post a link, and get a test drive. Ford in Bristol have one.

Mud_

2,924 posts

155 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
That almost looks like you should be comparing the monaro one gear lower...I wonder how usable 1st is in the mustang, though tyres are nicely wider and TC probably 10 years cleverer.

Codswallop

5,250 posts

193 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
Interesting comparison and the stats certainly look decent. Shame it couldn't have been a bit lighter, but all of the reviews so far have been pretty favourable in terms of handling and involvement (not seen any for RHD cars yet though).

As a more modern alternative to the Monaro it certainly is tempting yes

garyv8tiger

193 posts

191 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
I plan to sell my ls2 ro to buy one of these

mfp4073

1,940 posts

173 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
If we all defect to Ford.....what will happen to Monkfish?

ARAF

20,759 posts

222 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
mfp4073 said:
If we all defect to Ford.....what will happen to Monkfish?
Roger might have to sell a Ute to tide them over. hehe

They're already working on other V8s, and Porsches, so I'm sure they'll survive. smile

TonyTwoTribes

356 posts

115 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
mfp4073 said:
If we all defect to Ford.....what will happen to Monkfish?
Ford is certainly not for me, I worked for them for 15 years in Detroit and Europe In procurement. I know the true warranty costs and how they are built !!. its why I have a VXR8 and a Honda Type R. Always a place for Monkfish and walkinshaw.

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
I've been driving a new Mustang in the US (a V6 auto?). They certainly look good enough and being new works for me; looking at rot holes and perished rubber is not my bag. They're quite a bit smaller than a Monaro, though the boot is impressively useful given the aperture. Fit and finish isn't up to VAG standards, but it's still pretty good. Driving experience is good too.

So, here's the but: It doesn't feel like a muscle car. More like a rather competent A-2-B motor with a small cabin and a long bonnet. There's no feel good factor that comes from driving a Ro. Sad to say, I'd rather have a 6-series (diesel)...

ARAF

20,759 posts

222 months

Sunday 3rd January 2016
quotequote all
ArnieVXR said:
...looking at rot holes and perished rubber is not my bag..
Yeah right. Shall we recap on your purchases over the past year? Who are you trying to kid? hehe

jelevents

489 posts

148 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
Popped into my local dealership the other day to pick up a part for the wife's festa, they had 3 on site ....
Would have been rude not to have a looksy felt really nice inside although rear seats lot smaller than my ro
Still got me thinking scratchchin

jelevents

489 posts

148 months

Monday 4th January 2016
quotequote all
Popped into my local dealership the other day to pick up a part for the wife's festa, they had 3 on site ....
Would have been rude not to have a looksy felt really nice inside although rear seats lot smaller than my ro
Still got me thinking scratchchin

MadMaxHSV

1,814 posts

197 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
Had a new 2016 GT in the US recently. Not sure what models are being offered here.
Pleasantly surprised. Huge improvement over the 2015 model in terms of performance, handling and interior quality. Bit of a handful in the wet, but half the fun. Hustled nicely around canyon roads, although suspension could do with tightening up a little.

Bonnet still feels long and high but not as bad as a Challenger which feels like piloting an aircraft carrier.

Obviously light years ahead of a Monaro but there's ten years between them. Overall enjoyed it and may even pip the Camaro, especially with the new horrible styling.

Good looking car






Edited by MadMaxHSV on Tuesday 5th January 12:21

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
MadMaxHSV said:
...Obviously light years ahead of a Monaro but there's ten years between them...
Ten years! The Monaro is part of the Commodore VT-VZ family, which was heavily based on the Vauxhall/Opel Omega B1 and that was launched in 1994. So you could argue that there's over 20-years between them.

tongue out

Guessing you found the V8 ran more like a muscle car than I did with the V6. Which means that the 4-pot turbo will be shyte. Shame, as I thought that would be the one to run as a daily driver.

I still find myself looking at a 6-series. How does Arnie640d sound? Or maybe I'll recreate my old twin turbo (concrete barriers beware).

mfp4073

1,940 posts

173 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
I just cant get over the front end styling....it's just crap! I really don't seen any muscle car heritage there at all. What I do see is a Fiesta, Mondeo, or Transit ect...
When you factor in the awful rear lights, lack of Recaro seats and bonnet vents, i'm already out the show room door!

And another thing, I checked some private sales of the new Mustang on Autotrader, and anybody who pays £40K for one needs therapy..big time.

John

mik_ok

1,568 posts

240 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
I like the front end - it goes wrong at the rear to my eyes. confused

Not many options - manual V8 with the audio upgrade lists at around £36k.

I arranged to go and see one (mostly to assess rear space) during the hols but got sidetracked.

mik_ok

1,568 posts

240 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
The GT350 looks much more purposeful to me, but has a flat-plane V8 frown and there is no word of uk or RHD versions.


stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
granada203028 said:
So finally we have another right hand drive "muscle car" we can actually buy in the UK - the Mustang. So how will it compare to the Monaro? Outwardly we have two cars of about the same power to weight ratio, 400 BHP and 1.7 Tonnes. So we have to look deeper into the detail.



So the biggest difference is in the gearbox. We know how import gearing is, the 2004 Monaros were criticised for being over geared and this was addressed on the 2005 6.0 using the shorter M12 set rather than the earlier MM6. The Mustang is offered in the USA with a choice of rear ends, 3.31, 3.55 (assumed here for the UK) and 3.73.

Traditionally car performance is measured against the clock, 0 to 60 and quarter mile times. These are easy to measure but not the direct "shove in the back" the driver actually feels. Today of course we have an app on our phone. Acceleration performance can be calculated from:

Acceleration = Torque x Gear ratio x Final drive ratio/Weight x Rolling radius

Crunching the numbers the Mustang has the Monaro beaten by a surprising margin, all down to it's gearing.



So on the road the Mustang will leap ahead and then maintain a small advantage as pure power to weight ratio comes into play. The Mustang will eat up its gears much quicker which may enhance the subjective experience. I have an 05 CV8 though with the M12 box retrofitted. So the Mustang should show a further 7% or so improvement over what I'm used to.

The Ford "Coyote" engine gives away a whole litre to the GM LS2 but achieves the same torque through all the modern tricks of variable valve timing, 4 valves per cylinder etc. The GM unit is perhaps much truer to the muscle car concept though, being a classic ohv 2 valve design. It will be interesting to see how they compare on low end torque where the cubes may count more than the technology. Certainly my car has a lovely old school flexibility about it.

The Mustang appears good value for money at £33K, the Monaro 6.0 was £37K and we have had 28% inflation over the last 10 years. Most of us would have enjoyed a similar earnings increase. In real terms the Mustang is 30% cheaper then.

I look forward to reading a UK instrumented road test, if any one sees one please post a link, and get a test drive. Ford in Bristol have one.
Some really strange ratios there on the Mustang. Is it targeted at caravan owners or people who use it for towing ?

That's a terribly short 1st gear.

R8VXF

6,788 posts

114 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Some really strange ratios there on the Mustang. Is it targeted at caravan owners or people who use it for towing ?

That's a terribly short 1st gear.
Short all the way through with 1:1 being in 5th rather than 4th which might end up skewing a few dyno results...

SturdyHSV

10,083 posts

166 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
Something for consideration, I have chopped a reasonable lump of weight from my Monaro in various ways, and with a full (best I could manage) tank of fuel on Monkfish's corner weights it came out at 1683kg without a driver...

So 1677 I believe is possibly a dry weight, and the EU's kerb weight (fluids + 75kg driver) could be significantly higher?

For comparison, the yank 'curb weight' is full fluids but no driver, and that's quoted as 3725lbs, so 1,689kg. They did without climate control, cupholders, seat airbags, had 18" wheels and less bodykit.

The actual kerb weight of a stock UK Monaro VXR would be quite interesting to know.

ArnieVXR

2,449 posts

182 months

Tuesday 5th January 2016
quotequote all
R8VXF said:
Short all the way through with 1:1 being in 5th rather than 4th which might end up skewing a few dyno results...
My observation is that the V6 is gutless until you rev the nuts off it. I see the GT350 produced peak power at 7500rpm. Could this be why the gearing appears so short?