YT Supercharger Kit???

[R8VXF]

Xpuffin said:

FWIW supercharging has an upper limit on use ability and horsepower.
If you go down that path then you'll be topping out around the 800hp number.
Sounds fine when you're south of that figure but what to do when your a year past it and want more, you've nowhere to go without huge cost and compromise.
A more cost effective option would be to enjoy the GTS as is and start from scratch with some old high mileage snotter and play with a home fitted TT install, gradually increasing turbo size as you learn. The sky's the limit baby.
Torque control, boost control, throttle position control, Rev control. All possible with turbos. And as the whole of the known worlds car manufacturers are switching over to the technology now, the techs going to get a heap cheaper and way better.
PD blowers...hmmm....not so much.

If you can wait until mine is back on the road I'm pretty sure one drive out will convince you of the merits of a good turbo install.

The thing is that there are 1000+ bhp GTS' driving round in Australia that are all supercharged and are all capable of being driven as a daily. So this 800bhp limit really isn't.

By switching from a roots to a twin screw, you are keeping the characteristics of being a PD supercharger whilst gaining the efficiency of internal compression and the associated thermal efficiency this brings. Even Eaton, who are actually a licensed twin screw manufacturer, admit that screws are better than roots. Couple that with an interchiller and you have a nice cold dense charge of air.

I am not knocking your experience or knowledge here, I am just trying to do something a bit different to expand on the tuning knowledge in the UK and personally believe that for what I want from my car this is the correct way forward.

Not necessarily aimed at you Jez, but why is that if I said I was to go down the TVS2300 Heartbeat, people would be like "Yeah, go ahead mate, that's cool", but as soon as I say that I am thinking of going down the whipple root people are saying "don't do that, that is bad" and "that is too big for your engine" and "Twin-Turbo is the only way forward". As far as I can ascertain, no-one on this forum has gone the Whipple route, because clearance, so there is no collective knowledge on how this will perform.

Let this be my folly like the Monaro is your folly, and get excited about something different being tried. When I blow my engine up, come and help me pick the pieces up and let us work out what needs to be done differently the next time. I like to experiment, to try things for myself, to feel the differences for myself, to try new things. I like the way you and Stevie explain your thought processes and decision making as to how you have come to your respective solutions. I don't like the negativity shown by other members.

I will try and ignore such negative people if they likewise do the same. I will call them out again though if they keep repeating their bullst.

[MyM8V8]

R8VXF said:

Xpuffin said:

FWIW supercharging has an upper limit on use ability and horsepower.
If you go down that path then you'll be topping out around the 800hp number.
Sounds fine when you're south of that figure but what to do when your a year past it and want more, you've nowhere to go without huge cost and compromise.
A more cost effective option would be to enjoy the GTS as is and start from scratch with some old high mileage snotter and play with a home fitted TT install, gradually increasing turbo size as you learn. The sky's the limit baby.
Torque control, boost control, throttle position control, Rev control. All possible with turbos. And as the whole of the known worlds car manufacturers are switching over to the technology now, the techs going to get a heap cheaper and way better.
PD blowers...hmmm....not so much.

If you can wait until mine is back on the road I'm pretty sure one drive out will convince you of the merits of a good turbo install.

The thing is that there are 1000+ bhp GTS' driving round in Australia that are all supercharged and are all capable of being driven as a daily. So this 800bhp limit really isn't.

By switching from a roots to a twin screw, you are keeping the characteristics of being a PD supercharger whilst gaining the efficiency of internal compression and the associated thermal efficiency this brings. Even Eaton, who are actually a licensed twin screw manufacturer, admit that screws are better than roots. Couple that with an interchiller and you have a nice cold dense charge of air.

I am not knocking your experience or knowledge here, I am just trying to do something a bit different to expand on the tuning knowledge in the UK and personally believe that for what I want from my car this is the correct way forward.

Not necessarily aimed at you Jez, but why is that if I said I was to go down the TVS2300 Heartbeat, people would be like "Yeah, go ahead mate, that's cool", but as soon as I say that I am thinking of going down the whipple root people are saying "don't do that, that is bad" and "that is too big for your engine" and "Twin-Turbo is the only way forward". As far as I can ascertain, no-one on this forum has gone the Whipple route, because clearance, so there is no collective knowledge on how this will perform.

Let this be my folly like the Monaro is your folly, and get excited about something different being tried. When I blow my engine up, come and help me pick the pieces up and let us work out what needs to be done differently the next time. I like to experiment, to try things for myself, to feel the differences for myself, to try new things. I like the way you and Stevie explain your thought processes and decision making as to how you have come to your respective solutions. I don't like the negativity shown by other members.

I will try and ignore such negative people if they likewise do the same. I will call them out again though if they keep repeating their bullst.

Just do it! It will be an interesting story thread.

[R8VXF]

MyM8V8 said:

Just do it! It will be an interesting story thread.

The books are open on how long the engine block lasts

[raving]

1000 bhp dailys in Aus was probably made on 116 then had the tune pulled back for a daily so dont believe all you read

Best thing with a Gts is cam , springs , blower pulley , tune , filter ,700 + happy days , otherwise you can end up with a nothing car just a bragging rights machine that has been spoilt

Over 700 through 275 low profiles is a waste of time unless its a Gtr

[anonymous-user]

raving said:

1000 bhp dailys in Aus was probably made on 116 then had the tune pulled back for a daily so dont believe all you read

Best thing with a Gts is cam , springs , blower pulley , tune , filter ,700 + happy days , otherwise you can end up with a nothing car just a bragging rights machine that has been spoilt

Over 700 through 275 low profiles is a waste of time unless its a Gtr

+1. I personally wouldn't try to go much further with a PD supercharged car, Whipple/TVS or otherwise. Boiling IATs and wheel spin aren't much fun and I'd say 600 whp is plenty for a road car. For the mile it would definitely be turbos all the way.

[raving]

wormus said:

+1. I personally wouldn't try to go much further with a PD supercharged car, Whipple/TVS or otherwise. Boiling IATs and wheel spin aren't much fun and I'd say 600 whp is plenty for a road car. For the mile it would definitely be turbos all the way.

I know he obviously thinks your a prick but its right ( not you being a prick ) , run a Centri & make it more progressive instead of the bang through a small footprint of a Pd etc

Boiling Iats etc is just asking to much of stuff

Edited by raving on Tuesday 16th February 13:18

[ARAF]

R8VXF said:

Let this be my folly like the Monaro is your folly, and get excited about something different being tried. When I blow my engine up, come and help me pick the pieces up and let us work out what needs to be done differently the next time. I like to experiment, to try things for myself, to feel the differences for myself, to try new things. I like the way you and Stevie explain your thought processes and decision making as to how you have come to your respective solutions. I don't like the negativity shown by other members.

Look on it as the benefit of their wisdom, rather than negativity. As others have said here, the PD route has been followed, and people have found a dead end, so they are trying to help you avoid the costs involved.

However, if you're sure that you have found something that wasn't thought of before, by all means crack on.

For information, the Whipple build that was promised a long time ago, just didn't fit in the VXR8, so was abandoned after considerable expense, with the parts then being sold off for other projects. If Whipple say they now make a blower that fits, then fine - but what happens when/if you run into problems and the guy that sold you the stuff is on the other side of the world?

I'm sure everyone her wishes you luck in your quest, but it wasn't just fabrication that fouled a product that looked good on paper for others here.

[Xpuffin]

R8VXF said:

The thing is that there are 1000+ bhp GTS' driving round in Australia that are all supercharged and are all capable of being driven as a daily. So this 800bhp limit really isn't.

By switching from a roots to a twin screw, you are keeping the characteristics of being a PD supercharger whilst gaining the efficiency of internal compression and the associated thermal efficiency this brings. Even Eaton, who are actually a licensed twin screw manufacturer, admit that screws are better than roots. Couple that with an interchiller and you have a nice cold dense charge of air.

I am not knocking your experience or knowledge here, I am just trying to do something a bit different to expand on the tuning knowledge in the UK and personally believe that for what I want from my car this is the correct way forward.

Not necessarily aimed at you Jez, but why is that if I said I was to go down the TVS2300 Heartbeat, people would be like "Yeah, go ahead mate, that's cool", but as soon as I say that I am thinking of going down the whipple root people are saying "don't do that, that is bad" and "that is too big for your engine" and "Twin-Turbo is the only way forward". As far as I can ascertain, no-one on this forum has gone the Whipple route, because clearance, so there is no collective knowledge on how this will perform.

Let this be my folly like the Monaro is your folly, and get excited about something different being tried. When I blow my engine up, come and help me pick the pieces up and let us work out what needs to be done differently the next time. I like to experiment, to try things for myself, to feel the differences for myself, to try new things. I like the way you and Stevie explain your thought processes and decision making as to how you have come to your respective solutions. I don't like the negativity shown by other members.

I will try and ignore such negative people if they likewise do the same. I will call them out again though if they keep repeating their bullst.

Without advice your project will cost you many thousands in mistakes, quoting articles you have read from who knows where with snapshot claims on power and drive ability are not proof of anything.
And as for interchillers...erm....no one actually has one over here yet. All I've seen is vague claims from a bloke half the world away promising the world without even researching his market. So hardly the great white hope and it's still not capable of resolving the inherent cooling issue of a valley type blower no matter how much spin you put on it.
There is no such thing as a 1000 HP daily driver, possibly not even 800,especially not in the aftermarket world.
I wish you all the best with the build though and look forward to the thread on it.

[M11 MFP]

stevieturbo said:

R8VXF said:

Stevie knows his st, but is far too drag focussed

And what gave you that impression ? I havent been to a proper drag strip for 8-9 years !

Arnie's is the drag car.

I use mine for everything....as well as gathering dust/rust in the garage lol.

Not a one trick pony. Garron point 2014 (0.47 )

Garron point 2015

Centri 2014, turbos in 2015 Stevie? Tune appears to be more polished with the centri, if that's the case. Outside clip

Edited by M11 MFP on Tuesday 16th February 15:01

[ArnieVXR]

R8VXF said:

The thing is that there are 1000+ bhp GTS' driving round in Australia that are all supercharged and are all capable of being driven as a daily. So this 800bhp limit really isn't.

Soooo...a thousand horsepower it is

Go for it with what you've got. Start a thread and don't keep track of your spend. Expect everyone on the forum to have 2p worth to add, especially those (like me) who did something big a long time ago and then blew it up or crashed it

PS no one has done a big turbo Gen-E or Gen-F. Only saying...

LSX427 with twin 66mm turbos = solid 1200hp on 97-Ron petrol. My 2p

[liam1986]

R8VXF please go ahead with the build.

i'll have £5 that I still beat you at thunder road

[raving]

liam1986 said:

R8VXF please go ahead with the build.

i'll have £5 that I still beat you at thunder road

Not much confidence in a 5 quid wager , up the ante

[stevieturbo]

M11 MFP said:

Not a one trick pony. Garron point 2014 (0.47 )

Garron point 2015

Centri 2014, turbos in 2015 Stevie? Tune appears to be more polished with the centri, if that's the case. Outside clip

Edited by M11 MFP on Tuesday 16th February 15:01

Finished up with the Vortech at end of 2013, switched to turbos over the winter so all 2014 to present is turbo.
Noise your hearing re-misfire type noise is the traction control.

I think the only hillclimbs I did with the Vortech were Cultra and Craigantlet. Havent had a chance to do Craigantlet yet with the turbos as it fking rained the next two years.
Well...I did one practise run in 2014 then got a call to go to work so went to earn money instead of wasting it lol

As for blowers....choose an appropriate blower and you'll be able to make enough power to grenade any LS engine....there are some huge blowers available !

As for 1000hp daily driver, I really dont see any difficulty with it. Lets face it, just because it can make 1000hp...doesnt mean you will actually always use that power or even try to use it on the road. On the road during normal use I barely even go over 2000rpm ! And I could drive for hundreds or thousands of miles without going over this quite comfortably.
If you cant build an engine to handle that, something is seriously seriously wrong.

The bottom line is really really simple and been covered loads. Barring a few exceptions

Rootes - 6-700hp max for many reasons.

Screw - more potential, more options because more efficient than Rootes....but determine if you really need or can handle all the torque it is capable of generating at lower rpm's IF it is built to also make big numbers at the top. If it isnt built to make say 7-800+ then maybe isnt a huge reason to choose it over the TVS.

Centri - IMO a great all rounder and quite capable of 4 figures. They wont have the torque below say 3000rpm that a Rootes or Whipple does, but dont be under any illusion they do nothing at those speeds even if boost gauge may read low. They do help everywhere.

Turbo or turbos - as above with so many options these are very versatile and for those who dont want the noise of a blower, they can be very quiet too. So you could choose turbos to suit a variety of goals.

And torque control, boost control etc etc is all possible with any build controlled by a variety of options, this is not specific only to turbos, although in some ways they are a little easier.

For most part all it takes is the right ecu and person tuning it. Whether the torque is managed via boost, tuning, throttle control, or a combination of all of them, and then add traction control on top. Almost any build can be made pretty safe if you want.

[liam1986]

raving said:

liam1986 said:

R8VXF please go ahead with the build.

i'll have £5 that I still beat you at thunder road

Not much confidence in a 5 quid wager , up the ante

I'm confident. the newer cars are just to big/square/heavy and the gearing is all wrong, for the mile.

I've been ahead of 3-4 fairly (I'm not sure the extent) modified cars with LSA's

[raving]

liam1986 said:

I'm confident. the newer cars are just to big/square/heavy and the gearing is all wrong, for the mile.

I've been ahead of 3-4 fairly (I'm not sure the extent) modified cars with LSA's

Gotta be a 50 then I d say

[ARAF]

liam1986 said:

raving said:

liam1986 said:

R8VXF please go ahead with the build.

i'll have £5 that I still beat you at thunder road

Not much confidence in a 5 quid wager , up the ante

I'm confident. the newer cars are just to big/square/heavy and the gearing is all wrong, for the mile.

I've been ahead of 3-4 fairly (I'm not sure the extent) modified cars with LSA's

Barnaby is up for this wager, but I think he has been sin-binned for a week.

[stevieturbo]

liam1986 said:

I'm confident. the newer cars are just to big/square/heavy and the gearing is all wrong, for the mile.

Mine's big, definitely square and only a little lighter than a Monaro or VXR8...not that weight plays a huge role over a mile.

If you want to go fast over a mile, you need power. Plain and simple. Gearing does play a part too, but power can overcome most obstacles.

[raving]

ARAF said:

Barnaby is up for this wager, but I think he has been sin-binned for a week.

Fair play to the boy , lets see who has the biggest nads on the wager

[Xpuffin]

R8VXF said:

The thing is that there are 1000+ bhp GTS' driving round in Australia that are all supercharged and are all capable of being driven as a daily. So this 800bhp limit really isn't.

By switching from a roots to a twin screw, you are keeping the characteristics of being a PD supercharger whilst gaining the efficiency of internal compression and the associated thermal efficiency this brings. Even Eaton, who are actually a licensed twin screw manufacturer, admit that screws are better than roots. Couple that with an interchiller and you have a nice cold dense charge of air.

I am not knocking your experience or knowledge here, I am just trying to do something a bit different to expand on the tuning knowledge in the UK and personally believe that for what I want from my car this is the correct way forward.

Not necessarily aimed at you Jez, but why is that if I said I was to go down the TVS2300 Heartbeat, people would be like "Yeah, go ahead mate, that's cool", but as soon as I say that I am thinking of going down the whipple root people are saying "don't do that, that is bad" and "that is too big for your engine" and "Twin-Turbo is the only way forward". As far as I can ascertain, no-one on this forum has gone the Whipple route, because clearance, so there is no collective knowledge on how this will perform.

Let this be my folly like the Monaro is your folly, and get excited about something different being tried. When I blow my engine up, come and help me pick the pieces up and let us work out what needs to be done differently the next time. I like to experiment, to try things for myself, to feel the differences for myself, to try new things. I like the way you and Stevie explain your thought processes and decision making as to how you have come to your respective solutions. I don't like the negativity shown by other members.

I will try and ignore such negative people if they likewise do the same. I will call them out again though if they keep repeating their bullst.

Without advice your project will cost you many thousands in mistakes, quoting articles you have read from who knows where with snapshot claims on power and drive ability are not proof of anything.
And as for interchillers...erm....no one actually has one over here yet. All I've seen is vague claims from a bloke half the world away promising the world without even researching his market. So hardly the great white hope and it's still not capable of resolving the inherent cooling issue of a valley type blower no matter how much spin you put on it.
There is no such thing as a 1000 HP daily driver, possibly not even 800,especially not in the aftermarket world.
I wish you all the best with the build though and look forward to the thread on it.

[liam1986]

raving said:

ARAF said:

Barnaby is up for this wager, but I think he has been sin-binned for a week.

Fair play to the boy , lets see who has the biggest nads on the wager

i'm up for keeeping it friendly at a fiver

if i ever do spend the money and do an engine swap in mine it will be for a lxs454 and the biggest whipple charger you can get. will it be basiclly undrivable, probably