Upgrades & Insurance
Discussion
rocket said:
I am considering the exhaust and ECU remap, so I just called my insurance company, Admiral.
I told them that this would take the bhp from 350 to about 400, an increase of approx 14%, and they quoted an increase in premium of £169 for the remaining 6 months of the current policy. That works out at about £340 extra for a year!!
I called my current insurers (TESCO) before picking up the car and they wanted an xtra £36 for the remainder of the policy (roughly 6 months). Current premium is £58 + £6 for mods, not bad. It made sense for me to carry on the policy for the M3 when buying the Monaro and change when it needs renewing.
[quote]
An 05 car with Exhaust and remap from WORTEC would produce more than 390bhp. If 04 car would agree.[/quote]
Well that certainly is a strange claim considering that on Monkfish's website (a WORTEC agent in case you weren't aware) they claim only 390bhp WITH CAI (which wasn't mentioned here) for the 'sport pac' on a 2005 Monaro CV8. Also, why would an 05 LS1 be capable of making more power than an 04 LS1? The only differences from the factory that I was aware of were a slightly different engine map and a slightly improved exhaust. Surely both 04 and 05 cars with the same mods would make the same amount of power? If you recall my 04 CV8 made 389bhp at the WRC dyno day. You may or may not be aware that my car was running without CATS. This would add probably add an additional 5hp in itself. Therefore I would conclude that even 390bhp could be an ambitious claim and unless you show me some some dyno charts I fail to believe an 05 CV8 will make that power with the mods listed.
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 10:47
An 05 car with Exhaust and remap from WORTEC would produce more than 390bhp. If 04 car would agree.[/quote]
Well that certainly is a strange claim considering that on Monkfish's website (a WORTEC agent in case you weren't aware) they claim only 390bhp WITH CAI (which wasn't mentioned here) for the 'sport pac' on a 2005 Monaro CV8. Also, why would an 05 LS1 be capable of making more power than an 04 LS1? The only differences from the factory that I was aware of were a slightly different engine map and a slightly improved exhaust. Surely both 04 and 05 cars with the same mods would make the same amount of power? If you recall my 04 CV8 made 389bhp at the WRC dyno day. You may or may not be aware that my car was running without CATS. This would add probably add an additional 5hp in itself. Therefore I would conclude that even 390bhp could be an ambitious claim and unless you show me some some dyno charts I fail to believe an 05 CV8 will make that power with the mods listed.
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 10:47
The power figures quoted by one agent is entirely down to them. The biggest diff on 04 to 05 (and the weakest link on the 04) is the upgraded MAF and maf pipe. This allows far greater increases from stock with just exhaust and remaps. It is part of the 04 upgrade pack but is std factory fit on 05 car. Improved cooling of the 05 allows for greater flexibilty in tuning.
There are 05 cv8's with just cat back and remap that are running in excess of 400bhp.
PS
Your entitled to your opinion on whether you beleive or not.
>> Edited by caspy on Wednesday 4th January 10:56
There are 05 cv8's with just cat back and remap that are running in excess of 400bhp.
PS
Your entitled to your opinion on whether you beleive or not.
>> Edited by caspy on Wednesday 4th January 10:56
I've also had my MAF pipe changed...
I will say again, show me a dyno graph of an 05 CV8 which has made more than 400bhp with just an exhaust and re-map and then I will believe you. Until that that time I fail to see why it would.
Also, surely if Monkfish are an agent of WORTEC, it would be helpful to the customer if they didn't suddenly lose 10hp because they had their car modified somewhere else?
Oh yes, that's just my opinion.
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 11:08
I will say again, show me a dyno graph of an 05 CV8 which has made more than 400bhp with just an exhaust and re-map and then I will believe you. Until that that time I fail to see why it would.
Also, surely if Monkfish are an agent of WORTEC, it would be helpful to the customer if they didn't suddenly lose 10hp because they had their car modified somewhere else?
Oh yes, that's just my opinion.
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 11:08
Point one....i will show u a dyno sheet at the ACE if coming along.
Secondly, there are still diffs in the 04 v 05 car. As i said before, better cooling, diff exhaust, diff manifold, different software for the MAF. All little bits, but each little bit adds a few HP here and a few there.
PS
Monkfish suggest APPROX 390 hp. Every car is different as are the dyno's and conditions when tested. Better to err on the side of caution than raise expectation, therefore an approx figure has been suggested.
>> Edited by caspy on Wednesday 4th January 12:33
Secondly, there are still diffs in the 04 v 05 car. As i said before, better cooling, diff exhaust, diff manifold, different software for the MAF. All little bits, but each little bit adds a few HP here and a few there.
PS
Monkfish suggest APPROX 390 hp. Every car is different as are the dyno's and conditions when tested. Better to err on the side of caution than raise expectation, therefore an approx figure has been suggested.
>> Edited by caspy on Wednesday 4th January 12:33
Yep. The conversation went something like:
Insurer - Will the mods affect your bhp?
Me - Yes
Ins - By how much?
Me - About 50bhp
Ins - That's less than a 10% increase isn't it?
Me - Errrrrrrrrr...(I wish!)...no....350bhp to 400bhp, so about 14% increase
Then she came back with the £169. God knows how they calculate it!
Obviously I could have lied about the bhp or the percentage increase, but as others on the forum have said, is it worth it when you look at the potential downside.
Insurer - Will the mods affect your bhp?
Me - Yes
Ins - By how much?
Me - About 50bhp
Ins - That's less than a 10% increase isn't it?
Me - Errrrrrrrrr...(I wish!)...no....350bhp to 400bhp, so about 14% increase
Then she came back with the £169. God knows how they calculate it!
Obviously I could have lied about the bhp or the percentage increase, but as others on the forum have said, is it worth it when you look at the potential downside.
[quote]Point one....i will show u a dyno sheet at the ACE if coming along.
diff manifold
Ahhhh, it would make sense if this was the case. If the 05's had a different manifold I could see why the gains would be greater but I looked under the bonnet of an 05 and they looked pretty similar (if not exactly the same as) the 04 manifolds?
I'm still interested in the dyno chart for an 05 with just a cat-back and re-map (not CAI) though, I'm coming along to the ACE so it would be good if you could show me. It would be even better if the car in question was there for a quick 'visual'
[quote]Monkfish suggest APPROX 390 hp. Every car is different as are the dyno's and conditions when tested. Better to err on the side of caution than raise expectation, therefore an approx figure has been suggested.[/quote]
I take your point but the 2004 CV8 sport pac is also quoted at approx 390hp so if the differences between the 04 and 05 are as great as you suggest is this not an exaggeration? It would be nice to get some definate power figures, not just more than 400 or approx 390, I know what my car made and I'm sure others are interested to see what 05 LS1's are making...
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 17:18
diff manifold
Ahhhh, it would make sense if this was the case. If the 05's had a different manifold I could see why the gains would be greater but I looked under the bonnet of an 05 and they looked pretty similar (if not exactly the same as) the 04 manifolds?
I'm still interested in the dyno chart for an 05 with just a cat-back and re-map (not CAI) though, I'm coming along to the ACE so it would be good if you could show me. It would be even better if the car in question was there for a quick 'visual'
[quote]Monkfish suggest APPROX 390 hp. Every car is different as are the dyno's and conditions when tested. Better to err on the side of caution than raise expectation, therefore an approx figure has been suggested.[/quote]
I take your point but the 2004 CV8 sport pac is also quoted at approx 390hp so if the differences between the 04 and 05 are as great as you suggest is this not an exaggeration? It would be nice to get some definate power figures, not just more than 400 or approx 390, I know what my car made and I'm sure others are interested to see what 05 LS1's are making...
>> Edited by booster on Wednesday 4th January 17:18
Apologies for diverting the thread again, but i would like to correct a few points.
As already stated, there are a number of differences between the 04 and 05 cars, including the MAF and MAF pipe. There are also internal differences as well as a different exhaust system on standard cars.
You want to see a dyno sheet for an 05 CV8 with more than 390 bhp with re-map and exhuast only - why? We quote approx 390bhp for the Sport pac which includes a CAI. We do not claim 390 bhp with exhaust and remap only. However, as already offered, we can show you a dyno reading for 390 with just a re-map.
Our quoted figures are approximate and conservative. An 05 CV8, will genrally produce more than 390bhp with a Sport Pac, but with car to car differences we err on the side of caution and quote 390 bhp.
We do not quote a definite power figure for our Wortec Pacs, nor will we. If the customer wants a definite figure, then post modification, we can dyno the car and provide this. You have chosen to do this, and have the figures, others may choose not too.
I hope this clarifies our position.
As already stated, there are a number of differences between the 04 and 05 cars, including the MAF and MAF pipe. There are also internal differences as well as a different exhaust system on standard cars.
You want to see a dyno sheet for an 05 CV8 with more than 390 bhp with re-map and exhuast only - why? We quote approx 390bhp for the Sport pac which includes a CAI. We do not claim 390 bhp with exhaust and remap only. However, as already offered, we can show you a dyno reading for 390 with just a re-map.
Our quoted figures are approximate and conservative. An 05 CV8, will genrally produce more than 390bhp with a Sport Pac, but with car to car differences we err on the side of caution and quote 390 bhp.
We do not quote a definite power figure for our Wortec Pacs, nor will we. If the customer wants a definite figure, then post modification, we can dyno the car and provide this. You have chosen to do this, and have the figures, others may choose not too.
I hope this clarifies our position.
ringram said:
Ive seen writeups on stock LS1's on engine dyno's pulling over 400bhp.
So as long as intake and exhaust are sorted similar is easy on the monaro IMO.
When you say "Stock" - Do you mean "untouched" because Manufacturers will always put a conservative program in the ECM for the "Joe Public" driver.
It is highly probable that a stock engine can still be re-tuned for more performance without the need for replacement/additional hardware.
I think it was hotrod or maybe it was car craft who ran a pretty stock crate LS1 rated by GM at 320bhp to a whisker under 500 flywheel BHP. IIRC they used a GMPP cam and spring kit, leccy water pump, long headers and a carb! Cant remember what they did for sparks.
But the 320 GM ponies were corrected to a different spec and assumed all the belts and sundries were connected so were conservative in the first place anyway.
But the 320 GM ponies were corrected to a different spec and assumed all the belts and sundries were connected so were conservative in the first place anyway.
OK... The upgrades are being done next week..
Is anyone interested in purchasing my Standard '05 VXR Exhaust System (Cat Back)
I cannot advise on what other incarnations it will fit ('cause I'm dumb on techie matters like that) but I'm sure there's plenty of people that can if you ask.
>> Edited by BO55 VXR on Thursday 5th January 11:32
Is anyone interested in purchasing my Standard '05 VXR Exhaust System (Cat Back)
I cannot advise on what other incarnations it will fit ('cause I'm dumb on techie matters like that) but I'm sure there's plenty of people that can if you ask.
>> Edited by BO55 VXR on Thursday 5th January 11:32
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