M5(2003 model) or Monaro
Discussion
BigNige said:
M5's of all variants are great cars as are M3's but...they are cold & clinical and have no character that I can make out.
They aren't muscle cars like the Monaro is and that's why the 2 are different.
'tis like comparing a TVR to a 350z.
Both will go blisteringly quickly but the TVR has that bit of je ne cais qua that the Nissan will never have.
What, what WHAT???
Nige, bollox - the fecking M5 on burble with a modest little Tubi? Per-LEESE! On full attack it is easily comparable to the Monaro's admittedly superb soundtrack.
Indeed, it's one of the things that hooked me in the first place.
Je ne sais quoi? Hmmm, well only because it's a BMW and to the masses, they're all the same!
Actually, I must concede, one area the VXR craps on the Munchglabacher is in the frontal nostril profile: THAT is sensational for sure.
Dude...DUDE...it's not just about the soundtrack dude!
There's the handling which is huge fun and soooo predictable, even for a numpty like me.
The looks (as you've already admitted)
The talking point that the car is.
I can't even remember the last M5 I saw and yet the Monaro is always getting gawked at - hell, I even had a chap knock on my door to talk to me about it...there's a Gawk factor thread here somewhere.
The cheap cheap servicing - £185 for a 10k service...all in! How much for an M5?
The extreme tunability - 600bhp is easy to get and beyond isn't too much aggro
The enthusiasm of the dealers (you do know that Caspy is a dealer principle with a major Monaro dealer in Kent don't you?)
The carmeradrererereee thingy of the owners
Oh hell, it's a great car, I love and I WILL NOT HEAR OTHERWISE damn you... 
There's the handling which is huge fun and soooo predictable, even for a numpty like me.
The looks (as you've already admitted)
The talking point that the car is.
I can't even remember the last M5 I saw and yet the Monaro is always getting gawked at - hell, I even had a chap knock on my door to talk to me about it...there's a Gawk factor thread here somewhere.
The cheap cheap servicing - £185 for a 10k service...all in! How much for an M5?
The extreme tunability - 600bhp is easy to get and beyond isn't too much aggro
The enthusiasm of the dealers (you do know that Caspy is a dealer principle with a major Monaro dealer in Kent don't you?)
The carmeradrererereee thingy of the owners
Oh hell, it's a great car, I love and I WILL NOT HEAR OTHERWISE damn you...
[quote]I simply will not have it that these GM bruisers can match the kraut aristocrat - when the two were lined up at home recently, the yank lump sounded like Tommy Lee quoting Shakespeare after three nights of bad sh1t - the Beemer was immediately akin to Patrick Stewart in full King Lear.
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Monaro, there's little doubt it's comparably dragtastic but as a whole, it remains unresolved by comparison.
[/quote]
The M5 is a good car no doubt and obviously nothing we say is going to change your opinion but you can't expect to come to a HSV & Monaro forum and expect us all to bow down to the mighty BMW.
Bignige - the 350Z is not 'blisteringly quick' quite fast maybe but not blistering...
>> Edited by Dan_S V8 on Friday 6th January 19:26
Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Monaro, there's little doubt it's comparably dragtastic but as a whole, it remains unresolved by comparison.
[/quote]
The M5 is a good car no doubt and obviously nothing we say is going to change your opinion but you can't expect to come to a HSV & Monaro forum and expect us all to bow down to the mighty BMW.
Bignige - the 350Z is not 'blisteringly quick' quite fast maybe but not blistering...
>> Edited by Dan_S V8 on Friday 6th January 19:26
I would have to side with Simon [Deristrictor] He has an E39 BMW in stock form and it was my VXR that he drove. An E39 M5 is an awesome car. I saw a 30000 mile used 2001 "X"reg today in the trade for £20k. Stupendous value.
BTW Deristrictor drives a 541 BHP / 600 ft lbs Porsche 993 Turbo set up by WRC Tech [me]so he knows a fast car when he sees one.
But the question was [2004]CV8 or [2001]E39. For a similar budget I would say E39 every time. No soggy clutch, no gear selection issues, no access problems, good boot, better economy, serious BHP without modifying, One touch windows, heated mirrors, heated seats etc
I am in no way saying the Monaro is a bad car, just that £ for £ the E39 M5 is as good and so it should be it was £50k new vs £28k new. If you want to be different Monaro it is, if you want a real allround car BMW it is
Just my opinion of course.
BTW Deristrictor drives a 541 BHP / 600 ft lbs Porsche 993 Turbo set up by WRC Tech [me]so he knows a fast car when he sees one.
But the question was [2004]CV8 or [2001]E39. For a similar budget I would say E39 every time. No soggy clutch, no gear selection issues, no access problems, good boot, better economy, serious BHP without modifying, One touch windows, heated mirrors, heated seats etc
I am in no way saying the Monaro is a bad car, just that £ for £ the E39 M5 is as good and so it should be it was £50k new vs £28k new. If you want to be different Monaro it is, if you want a real allround car BMW it is
Just my opinion of course.
Servicing an repair costs are quite alot less than the BM. I appreciate the E39, it used to be the car i hanckered after before i got a Monaro. The first time i came to do battle in with one, i was plesantly surprised at how closely matched they were, straights bends etc etc.
When we concluded our games, we stopped and had a chat, the M5 guy was genuinely impresses with how well the 'ro went. Not to his taste, and four doors more practical than two, but they were and are in the same league performance wise.
For the record, i was driving a 04 5.7 VXR with light remap and exhaust. Approx 400bhp.
I guess what i am saying is both are quite appealing in different ways, but the ownership of the 'ro appeals to me more. The 'ro is in the frame against the M5 on merit. As was the first HSV's that came over and were pitted directly against the M5 and won as many fans in doing so as the M5.
Without getting shot down, the VXR/HSV is more of a natural performance comparison than STD CV8's. CV8 vs 545. M5 vs VXR. 'M' DNA and HSV DNA both the pinnacle of the manufacturers brand.
PS
Great thread, even arguments and appreciation by both camps of each cars strengths and weakness's without resorting to name calling!!!!!
>> Edited by caspy on Friday 6th January 19:40
>> Edited by caspy on Friday 6th January 19:44
When we concluded our games, we stopped and had a chat, the M5 guy was genuinely impresses with how well the 'ro went. Not to his taste, and four doors more practical than two, but they were and are in the same league performance wise.
For the record, i was driving a 04 5.7 VXR with light remap and exhaust. Approx 400bhp.
I guess what i am saying is both are quite appealing in different ways, but the ownership of the 'ro appeals to me more. The 'ro is in the frame against the M5 on merit. As was the first HSV's that came over and were pitted directly against the M5 and won as many fans in doing so as the M5.
Without getting shot down, the VXR/HSV is more of a natural performance comparison than STD CV8's. CV8 vs 545. M5 vs VXR. 'M' DNA and HSV DNA both the pinnacle of the manufacturers brand.
PS
Great thread, even arguments and appreciation by both camps of each cars strengths and weakness's without resorting to name calling!!!!!
>> Edited by caspy on Friday 6th January 19:40
>> Edited by caspy on Friday 6th January 19:44
[quote][quote]Without getting shot down, the VXR/HSV is more of a natural performance comparison than STD CV8's. CV8 vs 545. M5 vs VXR. 'M' DNA and HSV DNA both the pinnacle of the manufacturers brand. [/quote]
In standard form that is no doubt the case but modified...
[/quote]
Up to a point, but HSV DNA goes deeper than just more power, as does 'M'
In standard form that is no doubt the case but modified...
[/quote]
Up to a point, but HSV DNA goes deeper than just more power, as does 'M'
OK a few things.
1 Without doubt the M5 is a BETTER car.
2 There is no way in the world in a straight line, let alone the twisties, a stock CV8 will keep up with a previous model M5,even a stock 5.7 VXR would struggle.
3 The M5 is probably better built? (Superlight 'R for one may disagree)
4 Without a shadow the Monaro for me would hold the entertainment honours.
5 We are comparing 2000/2001 M5's with 04/05 Monaros for the same money,(think running costs)
6 Many owners on here have come from M3's and found a car the type of which wasn't built any more.
7 No-one buys a Monaro for the badge!
8 Deristrictor, I always respect your posts,evn when I can't quite follow your longer ones!
9 Lets all be happy big V8 are still being made!
10 All this coming from an EX-owner!! so what
do I care! Oh yeh, just remembered,AGH is picking me up in 10mins, better warn the neighbours.One of my best three sounding cars ever if only Wortec could do that to my Noble.
1 Without doubt the M5 is a BETTER car.
2 There is no way in the world in a straight line, let alone the twisties, a stock CV8 will keep up with a previous model M5,even a stock 5.7 VXR would struggle.
3 The M5 is probably better built? (Superlight 'R for one may disagree)
4 Without a shadow the Monaro for me would hold the entertainment honours.
5 We are comparing 2000/2001 M5's with 04/05 Monaros for the same money,(think running costs)
6 Many owners on here have come from M3's and found a car the type of which wasn't built any more.
7 No-one buys a Monaro for the badge!
8 Deristrictor, I always respect your posts,evn when I can't quite follow your longer ones!
9 Lets all be happy big V8 are still being made!
10 All this coming from an EX-owner!! so what
do I care! Oh yeh, just remembered,AGH is picking me up in 10mins, better warn the neighbours.One of my best three sounding cars ever if only Wortec could do that to my Noble.Fair dinkum, sj - I reckon a VXR without the Mary Rose diameter steering wheel and improved damping would be an utterly superb alternative.
Don't underestimate that 6.0's stump pulling capabilities, either: there were certain gear/rev ranges where it had distinctly sprightlier shove than the staff car.
(Btw, can we all please agree that with certainly with traction off (im the M5), these cars are lifted from the same hooligan gene pool?
)
Don't underestimate that 6.0's stump pulling capabilities, either: there were certain gear/rev ranges where it had distinctly sprightlier shove than the staff car.
(Btw, can we all please agree that with certainly with traction off (im the M5), these cars are lifted from the same hooligan gene pool?
)eliot said:
The cheap M5's you see, are typically without the BMW warranty. For me, Ive avoided M5's because you realy should get one with a BMW warranty which is very expensive (which about to go up again).
So can you get extended warranties on the monaros and how much are they?
All cars run out of warranty: what's your point? If you're worried about running costs these are hardly sensible cars in the first place.
Besides, you can actually pick up warrantied cars for sod all.
Hey Ho ! Might as well chuck in my thoughts here - interesting comments here !
I considered the BM option when I bought my Mon, but certain points put me off. The main plus for the mon to me was rarity, whereas you can buy the bimmer on every high street on the planet. You pay twice the price to be thought of as a "nuvver plonker in a BMW!" Also, as a lifelong Chevy man, its perfect. Simple engineering but it does what it says on the tin, and you can have as much more as you want - easily. No brainer for me.
As I've said before, I'd rather push my Monaro than drive a bimmer.
V8D
I considered the BM option when I bought my Mon, but certain points put me off. The main plus for the mon to me was rarity, whereas you can buy the bimmer on every high street on the planet. You pay twice the price to be thought of as a "nuvver plonker in a BMW!" Also, as a lifelong Chevy man, its perfect. Simple engineering but it does what it says on the tin, and you can have as much more as you want - easily. No brainer for me.
As I've said before, I'd rather push my Monaro than drive a bimmer.
V8D
For me, the 2000 HSV GTS (UK) had so much more "character" & purer steering feel than the M5.
The M5 was more powerful, than the un-modded HSV & had significantly more "toys".
I guess being a Muscle Car fan endeared me to the HSV rather than the M5, the rawness of the Chevy engine had so much more appeal than the sophisticated, state of the art, BM engine.
Owning an M5 in 2000 would have been a much easier proposition re: dealers etc.
Both superb cars, just comes down to personal choice at the end of the day.
The M5 was more powerful, than the un-modded HSV & had significantly more "toys".
I guess being a Muscle Car fan endeared me to the HSV rather than the M5, the rawness of the Chevy engine had so much more appeal than the sophisticated, state of the art, BM engine.
Owning an M5 in 2000 would have been a much easier proposition re: dealers etc.
Both superb cars, just comes down to personal choice at the end of the day.
derestrictor said:
All cars run out of warranty: what's your point? If you're worried about running costs these are hardly sensible cars in the first place.
I dont have a "point"
. I would like to know A)can you extend the warranty? and B) how much is it?
My point, if you like - is it a cheaper proposition than the current BMW warranty costs.
I assume it comes with a 3 year warranty anyway?
i had a m5 and a monaro cv8 last year so feel well placed to answer this.
the m5 felt quicker, the cv8 had more torque.
the m5 was 4 yrs old for 25k the monaro new for 22k.
the m5 is much better equipped and finished than the monaro
the m5 is better handling and ultimately faster, but less enjoyable
the monaro is less common than the bm 5 series and therefore felt much more exclusive
personally i wouldnt knock either, both are a blast, both go fast, both use loads of petrol and both depreciate rapidly
bennno
the m5 felt quicker, the cv8 had more torque.
the m5 was 4 yrs old for 25k the monaro new for 22k.
the m5 is much better equipped and finished than the monaro
the m5 is better handling and ultimately faster, but less enjoyable
the monaro is less common than the bm 5 series and therefore felt much more exclusive
personally i wouldnt knock either, both are a blast, both go fast, both use loads of petrol and both depreciate rapidly
bennno
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