Discussion
mackie1 said:
Surely the Vectra is only dangerous if you pile into a corner with the T/C turned off with your right foot buried into the carpet. That's just dangerous driving, not a dangerous car.
However I would say that 276bhp in a FWD car is rather a lot and is not being deployed in the best way. However the Focus ST (modified) handles that much power very well indeed, mainly because the power delivery is so smooth and the chassis is second to none.
However I would say that 276bhp in a FWD car is rather a lot and is not being deployed in the best way. However the Focus ST (modified) handles that much power very well indeed, mainly because the power delivery is so smooth and the chassis is second to none.
Agreed, anyone could drive a FWD like that if required. When the sport button is switched off in the Vectra, it also switches off all the electronic chassis software. To this end when TG turned off the button is it any wonder they could do what they did just to give their dislike to the car more weight.
Read most other features on the car and funnily enough it gets pretty good reviews when everything is working as it was designed.
Agree it should be AWD or RWD, lighter etc but maybe we can wish for that in future models...
I have to say the Vectra's not my cup of tea (the Monaro certainly is though!).
The best thing about the Vectra seems to be the continuing shout of intent from Vauxhall. This shows a determination, possibly slightly misguided in this instance, to be taken seriously as a performance car manufacturer.
Remind anyone of the 80's? Fwd Astra GTE 16vs and Cavalier SRIs, torque steering buggers that they were, always in the mags and no contemporary group test was complete without them. Vauxhall/Opel never put a V8 into their rear drive Manta though (although I'm sure someone has)
The best thing about the Vectra seems to be the continuing shout of intent from Vauxhall. This shows a determination, possibly slightly misguided in this instance, to be taken seriously as a performance car manufacturer.
Remind anyone of the 80's? Fwd Astra GTE 16vs and Cavalier SRIs, torque steering buggers that they were, always in the mags and no contemporary group test was complete without them. Vauxhall/Opel never put a V8 into their rear drive Manta though (although I'm sure someone has)
whiterj said:
Remind anyone of the 80's? Fwd Astra GTE 16vs and Cavalier SRIs, torque steering buggers that they were...
Yep.
Bloody horrible.
The 2.0 16v Astra GTE almost put me off front wheel drive for life.
A great engine ruined by a nasty torque steering chassis. But my God it was fast.
That Monaro thing looks great. Like a big grown up 2.8 Capri.
darkblueturbo said:
Isn't it about time they stopped putting SO MUCH POWER through FWD cars?
280bhp through the front wheels? It can't be nice. I've read about, but not had the pleasure of driving, the latest VXR and I hear it's surprisingly not totally ruined by torque steer. But surely this is only because of electronics, such as the traction control, reigning things it... Why give it that much power in the first place?
A car that size with that much power should be shooting to 60 in under 6 seconds - I believe the STi Impreza's were quotes at 4.66 seconds (P1) with 280PS and 4WD.
If you want to throw that much power through it why not make it 4WD - or better yet, rear?
280bhp through the front wheels? It can't be nice. I've read about, but not had the pleasure of driving, the latest VXR and I hear it's surprisingly not totally ruined by torque steer. But surely this is only because of electronics, such as the traction control, reigning things it... Why give it that much power in the first place?
A car that size with that much power should be shooting to 60 in under 6 seconds - I believe the STi Impreza's were quotes at 4.66 seconds (P1) with 280PS and 4WD.
If you want to throw that much power through it why not make it 4WD - or better yet, rear?
Big power can be put down surprisingly well through modern, big rimmed front wheel drive cars. My Leon Cupra R (18" wheels + Goodyear Eagle F1s) can be floored in every gear (in the dry) without wheelspin apart from <20mph in 1st. There is also very little torquesteer.
I've also been in tuned big turbo Leons putting out ~320bhp. Again, no wheelspin in the dry at all apart from at low speeds. I will admit that FWD cars do suffer a bit more on poor road surface and in rain.
4wd certainly has its advantages, it will murder an equal power FWD car in the rain, in tight twisties and on a poor road. However, on a dry road and in a straight line an equal power FWD car should out-accelerate the 4WD car when rolling (due to additional weight and transmission losses).
NotNormal said:
mackie1 said:
Surely the Vectra is only dangerous if you pile into a corner with the T/C turned off with your right foot buried into the carpet. That's just dangerous driving, not a dangerous car.
However I would say that 276bhp in a FWD car is rather a lot and is not being deployed in the best way. However the Focus ST (modified) handles that much power very well indeed, mainly because the power delivery is so smooth and the chassis is second to none.
However I would say that 276bhp in a FWD car is rather a lot and is not being deployed in the best way. However the Focus ST (modified) handles that much power very well indeed, mainly because the power delivery is so smooth and the chassis is second to none.
Agreed, anyone could drive a FWD like that if required. When the sport button is switched off in the Vectra, it also switches off all the electronic chassis software. To this end when TG turned off the button is it any wonder they could do what they did just to give their dislike to the car more weight.
Read most other features on the car and funnily enough it gets pretty good reviews when everything is working as it was designed.
Agree it should be AWD or RWD, lighter etc but maybe we can wish for that in future models...
Was just thinking that on top gear they do tend to pile into corners too fast in FWD & 4WD cars and then complain of understeer. Well if you will drive them as there not intended to be (4WD slow in, fast out) that will happen. Was watching a repeat today (week off worrk waa hayy!) with Mark Webber. JC was amazed that he drove the Suzy into one corner with no understeer. Webber just said "That's throttle control"!
Funny how when they boot a RWD and it steps out that is apparently a good thing in their eyes.
Just to add that I drive a RWD so I do understand that oversteer can be fun, but not really fast, & I do think that much power should not be FWD, Mazda can do it with the 6.
Edited by xanderjones on Monday 11th September 20:54
uk hsv said:
turboman said:
GTRene said:
hm...500ps does sound realy good for that sort of money
Put that engine in a lightweight car like lets say Exige/Elise sort of cars and I buy one
GTRene
Put that engine in a lightweight car like lets say Exige/Elise sort of cars and I buy one
GTRene
Edited by GTRene on Monday 11th September 14:00
Easy, Marcos TSO. There you go.
TSO GTC IS £50,000 (+options) and has 420hp............maybe www.elfin.com.au/flash/index.aspx would suit you...........sir
Yep, but even the Marcos will be to expensive for me when I import one into the Netherlands! we have tax about 47% more over the listed UK price...so not that good
I also love that other Ausi car...but no roof or hardtop and more then 100.000,- ausi dollars! without the Dutch Tax...so all a big no sadly...max I could and will pay for a fast car is around the 50.000,-euro(because I don't sell my house for a car...yet
) included all tax in the Netherlands...so I wait a few years and buy a second hand But thanks anyway..I dream on...like the most of us...?
GTRene
Olivera said:
darkblueturbo said:
Isn't it about time they stopped putting SO MUCH POWER through FWD cars?
280bhp through the front wheels? It can't be nice. I've read about, but not had the pleasure of driving, the latest VXR and I hear it's surprisingly not totally ruined by torque steer. But surely this is only because of electronics, such as the traction control, reigning things it... Why give it that much power in the first place?
A car that size with that much power should be shooting to 60 in under 6 seconds - I believe the STi Impreza's were quotes at 4.66 seconds (P1) with 280PS and 4WD.
If you want to throw that much power through it why not make it 4WD - or better yet, rear?
280bhp through the front wheels? It can't be nice. I've read about, but not had the pleasure of driving, the latest VXR and I hear it's surprisingly not totally ruined by torque steer. But surely this is only because of electronics, such as the traction control, reigning things it... Why give it that much power in the first place?
A car that size with that much power should be shooting to 60 in under 6 seconds - I believe the STi Impreza's were quotes at 4.66 seconds (P1) with 280PS and 4WD.
If you want to throw that much power through it why not make it 4WD - or better yet, rear?
Big power can be put down surprisingly well through modern, big rimmed front wheel drive cars. My Leon Cupra R (18" wheels + Goodyear Eagle F1s) can be floored in every gear (in the dry) without wheelspin apart from <20mph in 1st. There is also very little torquesteer.
I've also been in tuned big turbo Leons putting out ~320bhp. Again, no wheelspin in the dry at all apart from at low speeds. I will admit that FWD cars do suffer a bit more on poor road surface and in rain.
4wd certainly has its advantages, it will murder an equal power FWD car in the rain, in tight twisties and on a poor road. However, on a dry road and in a straight line an equal power FWD car should out-accelerate the 4WD car when rolling (due to additional weight and transmission losses).
I know what you're saying about power train losses and so on but going like for like on power... But compare the 0-60 times of the new VXR and the P1 Impreza - both 280PS.
But then the VXR is probably heavier to start with.
It's the weight that's my main gripe with these hot hatches... If they were lighter they wouldn't need so much power.
Well impressed with your Leon Cupra though..!! I know they're impressive bits of kit, but I'm very surprised and impressed there's that little wheel spin.
And that's with no electronic limitation? All mechanical? Well played Seat...
Another manufacturer just putting loads ov bhp into a car without really taking into account if the chassis is really up to it!!! the monaros are fantastic for what you pay but the vectra is just crazy, brilliant in a straight line but that much horse power through the front wheels its gonna be a pig to drive torque steering everytime you want to put ya toe down!!! for what you pay something like £24,000 itz plain crazy, ya buying a car which you cant really drive hard as itz guna understeer you into a tree or worse still another car and ya might as well set fire to £24000 quid coz itz gone disappear very quickly with a vauxhall badge on it especially a vectra ...love the idea of vx220's and monaros great used buys to but i cant quite accept the vectra its just a rep mobile with a bodykit and stupid amounts of horse power..just found a 06 plated one with 5000 miles and itz only £19,000 the words wouldnt go near it with a barge pole come to mind...
NotNormal said:
Agreed, anyone could drive a FWD like that if required. When the sport button is switched off in the Vectra, it also switches off all the electronic chassis software. To this end when TG turned off the button is it any wonder they could do what they did just to give their dislike to the car more weight.
But I think that is the whole point. You have everything switched on for normal driving (just in case) and if you want to get somewhere in a hurry. You switch it off, when you want to have some fun. I think Evo showed what a good car it is with everything switched on, while Top Gear were showing that when you switch it off to have a laugh, instead of giving you extra giggles, it turns into an undrivable understeery beast. Why have the ability to turn it off if it make the car worse.
I really like these cars.. Probably cause Vauxhall does tend to frequently get a good slating.
The Vectra is fairly bonkers but for the market i think its aimed at (Performance Family Car) it seems pretty groovy to me.
The only person to seriously fault the handling is J.C. And he has hated the Vectra since the day it replaced the Cavalier so i'd take that with a pinch of salt..
On Zero to 60 times.. If my mates Scoobie is anything to go by, gearing will play a big part plus the benefit of 4wd.
My guess the Vectra is geared more for swift road / motorway work where the Scoobies are normally geared for optimum acceleration and not high speed cruising.. MPG in Scoobies, from my experience, can be pretty dire.
The current Scoobie is pretty heavy but i think the Vectra will still top the scales..
For me the VXR's are a bit of fresh air and a bit of a 'naughty' take on the Euro-box.
Me Like!
The Vectra is fairly bonkers but for the market i think its aimed at (Performance Family Car) it seems pretty groovy to me.
The only person to seriously fault the handling is J.C. And he has hated the Vectra since the day it replaced the Cavalier so i'd take that with a pinch of salt..
On Zero to 60 times.. If my mates Scoobie is anything to go by, gearing will play a big part plus the benefit of 4wd.
My guess the Vectra is geared more for swift road / motorway work where the Scoobies are normally geared for optimum acceleration and not high speed cruising.. MPG in Scoobies, from my experience, can be pretty dire.
The current Scoobie is pretty heavy but i think the Vectra will still top the scales..
For me the VXR's are a bit of fresh air and a bit of a 'naughty' take on the Euro-box.
Me Like!
Sorry to be a negative voice in the crowd, but I come from a land where these big ugly Holdens are everywhere... and they are just that, big and ugly... and the same with the equivalent Fords...
For that price, which ain't that far shy of what I paid for my Ult, I know what I prefer my 500bhp in...
For that price, which ain't that far shy of what I paid for my Ult, I know what I prefer my 500bhp in...
peterpsg said:
Sorry to be a negative voice in the crowd, but I come from a land where these big ugly Holdens are everywhere... and they are just that, big and ugly... and the same with the equivalent Fords...
For that price, which ain't that far shy of what I paid for my Ult, I know what I prefer my 500bhp in...
For that price, which ain't that far shy of what I paid for my Ult, I know what I prefer my 500bhp in...
I'd like to see you get 4 people in your ult though
I really detest the Aussie Holdens, and the Fords (XR etc) too for that matter. As a Kiwi living in the UK, one of the positives was not seeing these kind of ugly, overweight dated muscle cars that are ever present downunder.
They have a series called V8 supercars down here too, and supercars they are not, almost spewed my drink when I heard the term after returning here to live.
They have a series called V8 supercars down here too, and supercars they are not, almost spewed my drink when I heard the term after returning here to live.
Whilst we support free speech, in case recent contributors to this thread/forum have not noticed this is a forum for people who actually LIKE these ugly nonsupercars (and on the whole do actually appreciate other types as well).
It does not take a rocket scientist to work out gas guzzlers will suffer in a high price petrol market! Over here we have been rather used to eurobox clones with the usual range of 1.9/2.0tdi/2.0l16v turbo/non turbo and if you are lucky a V6.
By the reaction most guys get who drive these cars in the UK they are well liked for sure. I even got tailed and then asked to lower my window by the boys in blue to be told he was rather impressed with my car and the noise it made!!
I for one am not that disappointed about the likely depreciation based on recent valuations they are no worse or perhaps better than I got on a premium model from Audi's diesel range previously.
So constructive comments please that add to this community if you hate these things so much why waste your time here...
It does not take a rocket scientist to work out gas guzzlers will suffer in a high price petrol market! Over here we have been rather used to eurobox clones with the usual range of 1.9/2.0tdi/2.0l16v turbo/non turbo and if you are lucky a V6.
By the reaction most guys get who drive these cars in the UK they are well liked for sure. I even got tailed and then asked to lower my window by the boys in blue to be told he was rather impressed with my car and the noise it made!!
I for one am not that disappointed about the likely depreciation based on recent valuations they are no worse or perhaps better than I got on a premium model from Audi's diesel range previously.
So constructive comments please that add to this community if you hate these things so much why waste your time here...
It's probably a familiarity thing... If you see them all the time everywhere, you're bound to get a bit bored by them.
Big thumping V8's are long overdue on this country's roads. Always a pleasure to see and hear one - especially with a sports exhaust!!
Probably why I was having a go about the Vectra on page 1 - bloody hot hatches all over the place. You just want someone to do something different...
Though these discenting Aussie and Kiwi voices here are obviously in the minority down under, or they wouldn't be everywhere would they.
Supercars they may not be but I long for the BTCC to return to days of RWD big BHP monsters... Long live the RS500!!
Big thumping V8's are long overdue on this country's roads. Always a pleasure to see and hear one - especially with a sports exhaust!!
Probably why I was having a go about the Vectra on page 1 - bloody hot hatches all over the place. You just want someone to do something different...
Though these discenting Aussie and Kiwi voices here are obviously in the minority down under, or they wouldn't be everywhere would they.
Supercars they may not be but I long for the BTCC to return to days of RWD big BHP monsters... Long live the RS500!!
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