Brake judder - warped discs?

[mogv8]

Mine just replaced under warranty. They tried skimming first (fair enough) and this did not work, so new ones fitted. 9k miles.

[C8PPO]

Mog, if you could provide some details, publicly or privately, I'd appreciate it, as I'm prepared to take this fight back to Vauxhall (it's principle now, not the money), hence the Trading Standards/Honest John remarks, but could do with some further ammunition.

Edited by C8PPO on Monday 26th November 22:03

[Gelf VXR]

Magic919 said:

Warped discs are not a myth, but many people think brake judder = warped discs.

Some reading here:

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/tech_01_judder.h...

Warped disc myth here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_braked...

Edited by Gelf VXR on Tuesday 27th November 03:16

[greens vauxhall]

C8PPO said:

Mog, if you could provide some details, publicly or privately, I'd appreciate it, as I'm prepared to take this fight back to Vauxhall (it's principle now, not the money), hence the Trading Standards/Honest John remarks, but could do with some further ammunition.

Edited by C8PPO on Monday 26th November 22:03

All dealers act as a go between with Vauxhall when it comes to warranty, we do not have the final say, and can only state the facts as we understand them. We will try and get a positive resolution, but, if they say no, then no it is. Your interpretation of a dealers efforts can only be guessed at as you will not have chapter and verse on all the conversations.

We work very hard on behalf of our customers to ensure warranty issues are dealt with fairly, because your claim was rejected the finger of blame shouldnt be pointed at the messenger as it has in other recent posts.

Edited by greens vauxhall on Tuesday 27th November 07:16

[V6 JDT]

Gelf VXR said:

Magic919 said:

Warped discs are not a myth, but many people think brake judder = warped discs.

Some reading here:

www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/tech_01_judder.htm

Warped disc myth here:

www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

Edited by Gelf VXR on Tuesday 27th November 03:16

I don't quite agree with the articles last myth about (not) topping up the brake fluid reservoir. It says that there is a float that contacts a sensor to warn when the pads are worn. I always thought that there was a sensor in the pads and a wire is connected to the pad to warn when they are in need of replacement. At least that's what I had in the Omega and S type Jag
I thinks he's speaking cobblers

[uk hsv]

NO wire in the Monaro pads..........just metal on metal if you don't pay attention.

[slackalice]

V6 JDT said:

Gelf VXR said:

Magic919 said:

Warped discs are not a myth, but many people think brake judder = warped discs.

Some reading here:

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/tech_01_judder.h...

Warped disc myth here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_braked...

Edited by Gelf VXR on Tuesday 27th November 03:16

I don't quite agree with the articles last myth about (not) topping up the brake fluid reservoir. It says that there is a float that contacts a sensor to warn when the pads are worn. I always thought that there was a sensor in the pads and a wire is connected to the pad to warn when they are in need of replacement. At least that's what I had in the Omega and S type Jag
I thinks he's speaking cobblers

I find it interesting how two people can read the same article and get two different opinions from it.

Now for me, I read that article and was impressed that the author knew what they were talking about, however in their last paragraphs I think that was just a generalization of the modern car, and maybe would have been best left out.

I recently had a car on my lift for “poor brakes” and my God ! I have never ever seen so much material transference, it was so bad that we took a grinder to it just to see how bad it was before discarding said item.

So for me, the author did know what he was talking about !

As for the original posting, why not just have a light skim to remove the deposit, and then change the pad’s for a different compound ? much cheaper option, and you will save your sanity !!

Still, what do I know ???????

[wolfracer]

Short and Sweet
Had the same issue - one use of the brakes then everytime after the whole car shuddered even with the lightest touch.
Took it to roger - had some friction pads put in, nothing else, and voila! problem (virtually) gone away.
Apparently (in my limited knowledge) friction pads "grind" off the material transfer as apposed to traditional adhesive pads which grip through material transfer.
please correct me if this is incorrect. Either way it fixed my problem.

[C8PPO]

greens vauxhall said:

C8PPO said:

Mog, if you could provide some details, publicly or privately, I'd appreciate it, as I'm prepared to take this fight back to Vauxhall (it's principle now, not the money), hence the Trading Standards/Honest John remarks, but could do with some further ammunition.

Edited by C8PPO on Monday 26th November 22:03

All dealers act as a go between with Vauxhall when it comes to warranty, we do not have the final say, and can only state the facts as we understand them. We will try and get a positive resolution, but, if they say no, then no it is. Your interpretation of a dealers efforts can only be guessed at as you will not have chapter and verse on all the conversations.

We work very hard on behalf of our customers to ensure warranty issues are dealt with fairly, because your claim was rejected the finger of blame shouldnt be pointed at the messenger as it has in other recent posts.

Edited by greens vauxhall on Tuesday 27th November 07:16

Understand the principles there but it doesn't help when Luton tell you that they've been told one thing by the dealer, when to your face the dealer has said something completely different. Specifically, Luton are under the impression that my brakes were evenly worn throughout and that it was normal wear & tear, whereas I was told in the dealership at the time when the brakes were replaced that ONE pad was worn to the metal and had caused the damage. Add to that the fact that my removed parts, which I specifically asked to be retained until the warranty claim was resolved, then became unavailable to me and you can perhaps see why the entire episode has left a nasty taste.

In any case, disregarding any of the above, it's utterly outrageous that a set of brakes in any road car should be worn/damaged beyond further use within 7500 miles.

Edited by C8PPO on Tuesday 27th November 11:37

[baz7175]

wolfracer said:

Short and Sweet
Had the same issue - one use of the brakes then everytime after the whole car shuddered even with the lightest touch. Took it to roger - had some friction pads put in, nothing else, and voila! problem (virtually) gone away. Apparently (in my limited knowledge) friction pads "grind" off the material transfer as apposed to traditional adhesive pads which grip through material transfer. please correct me if this is incorrect. Either way it fixed my problem.

Sounds like a possible plan of attack for the spring when mine will come back out of hibernation - incidentally do you have idea of costs for the friction pads?

[monkfish1]

£109.95 in VAT

[baz7175]

monkfish1 said:

£109.95 in VAT

For that measly sum I can see me giving you guys a call at some stage in the new year to order myself a set of pads then, as otherwise I'll need to start pimping some local German girls to raise the funds for AP's

[S600VXR]

Go for AP's and stop messing about. So long as you look after them (IE: wash them regulary) they work brill. Best brakes I've ever had and Ive had all sorts over the years. They even outbrake a mate with an RS6 with monster 400mm rotors and 8 pot calipers!

[S600VXR]

S600VXR said:

Go for AP's and stop messing about. So long as you look after them (IE: wash them regulary) they work brill. Best brakes I've ever had and Ive had all sorts over the years. They even outbrake a mate with an RS6 with monster 400mm rotors and 8 pot calipers!

Sorry didnt mean to go off the "warrentee" issue thing but lifes to short to chase about with standard brakes when they are a known week point in the car - which Holden wont admit and as such wont keep forking out for new brakes as they warp through spirited road use. Try for one replacment then just upgrade if your keeping the car otherwise the effort your putting into making and wining a point will detract from the enjoyment you get in driving the car. IMHO of course!

[ads_green]

Gelf VXR said:

Magic919 said:

Warped discs are not a myth, but many people think brake judder = warped discs.

Some reading here:

www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/tech_01_judder.htm

Warped disc myth here:

www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml

Edited by Gelf VXR on Tuesday 27th November 03:16

Good advice on the bedding in process. You can repeat this every now and then to help clear rubbish off the discs. the important thing is not to come to a complete stop.

[mogv8]

C8PPO said:

if you could provide some details, publicly or privately, I'd appreciate it,

I will PM you.

[Doleboy]

ads_green said:

Gelf VXR said:

Magic919 said:

Warped discs are not a myth, but many people think brake judder = warped discs.

Some reading here:

http://www.powerbrake.co.za/pages/tech_01_judder.h...

Warped disc myth here:

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_braked...

Edited by Gelf VXR on Tuesday 27th November 03:16

Good advice on the bedding in process. You can repeat this every now and then to help clear rubbish off the discs. the important thing is not to come to a complete stop.

I have experienced the symptoms quoted by Stoptech previously on another car (Jag S-type R, which I believe has AP's with Ferrodo pads - though don't quote me). The judder periods happened a few times. The first time the dealer accidentally replaced rotors under warranty (shame). On later occasions extremly hard breaking and avoiding holding the brakes whilst hot (which is hard to avoid with an auto) cleared things up.

I have however, warped front & rear rotors on my VXR which resulted in replacing the lot at Monkfish (without going for the full AP replacement). Saved a grand (versus standard GM or AP) but still cost a grand.

From my experience, going for a harder pad compoud (or listening to Radio 4 more often) could potentially avoid this issue.

[V2RAC]

It would appear that some of us have had different treatment from Vauxhall to others regarding warranty issues on front discs. Mine were replaced when the brakes started to judder at even light applications. This work was carried out under warranty without any resistance whatsoever, mileage was circa 12000. As this is obviously a known problem it would be interesting to know what criteria is applied by Vauxhall in order to decide who gets their faulty brakes replaced under warranty and who unluckily has to pay. Having to cough up for new brakes at 7500 miles when it is a known issue is truely scandalous. Another valid point is why are the discs so rediculously expensive, compare the cost with say Vectra parts through a factor, probably less than £50 and Monaro parts around a grand. At the end of the day they are both round bits of metal albeit Monaro ones may be a bit bigger but I suspect, not big enough!!!!

Edited by V2RAC on Sunday 16th December 19:23

[C8PPO]

Brian from Greens did PM me over my issue, but we've not been able to be in contact since. I asked at Rainham on Saturday and they were going to pass my message on so hopefully will speak to him soon.