Insurance - its a rip off!!
Discussion
There i was minding my own business, stationary in a queue on the M1 in my R8 when somebody behind me (WVM) fails to stop and hits a Fiesta behind me which in turn is shunted into the nearside rear corner of my car. The impact is very low speed and the damage largely cosmetic - a new bumper, grill, diffuser and parking sensor. Details are exchanged & WVM effectively admits liability. I reported the accident to my insurance company (Admiral) who efficiently process the claim. My car is due to be repaired next week. I think job done - lucky there wasn't too much damage but at least all parties are insured so no loss of excess, NCD etc.
How wrong I was!!
In the process of renewing the insurance on her car my wife was asked had either of the named drivers made a claim. She explained that I was progressing a claim but all costs would be recovered from the 3rd party. "Oh so its a no fault claim?" "Yes" replied my wife! "In that case your renewal premium will be another £50 and that claim remains on your file for the next 3 years". This is before I have even begun to contemplate the renewal on my R8 in December. What is that going to do to the premium?
I have never claimed in my life, I have a clean driving licence and just because some plonker can't drive I am the one who is penalised. What is going on? How can this be right? The insurance operative says that my insurance rating has been affected because I have initiated a claim and that it maybe because I could be a habitual claimant driving on high risk roads at high risk times!! What the hell are you supposed to do to avoid that? Not use your car at all I presume! What do we have insurance for?
So what am i to do to ensure that I am not out of pocket due to WVM's negligence? It would appear my only option is to take a out a private claim in the small claims court for my increased cost of insurance projected forward over the next 3 years for 3 vehicles!! Who will help me progress that?
Has anyone else any experience or advise for this totally inequitable situation??
All comments/rants gratefully received
How wrong I was!!
In the process of renewing the insurance on her car my wife was asked had either of the named drivers made a claim. She explained that I was progressing a claim but all costs would be recovered from the 3rd party. "Oh so its a no fault claim?" "Yes" replied my wife! "In that case your renewal premium will be another £50 and that claim remains on your file for the next 3 years". This is before I have even begun to contemplate the renewal on my R8 in December. What is that going to do to the premium?
I have never claimed in my life, I have a clean driving licence and just because some plonker can't drive I am the one who is penalised. What is going on? How can this be right? The insurance operative says that my insurance rating has been affected because I have initiated a claim and that it maybe because I could be a habitual claimant driving on high risk roads at high risk times!! What the hell are you supposed to do to avoid that? Not use your car at all I presume! What do we have insurance for?
So what am i to do to ensure that I am not out of pocket due to WVM's negligence? It would appear my only option is to take a out a private claim in the small claims court for my increased cost of insurance projected forward over the next 3 years for 3 vehicles!! Who will help me progress that?
Has anyone else any experience or advise for this totally inequitable situation??
All comments/rants gratefully received
this has happened to me too!!!
i've never costed my insuance companies a penny in my 7 years of driving. but this year i had someone hit my golf in january when it was icy, went through the same as you. his insurance paid for the repairs and i'm happy
then when i take the insuance out for the ro in april i get asked the same question as you "have you had any claims in the last five years, regardless of fault" so i say yes and it takes my prenium from £1758 to £2177.
ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing bastards !!!!!
i know i'm not giving you any advise on how to get your money back, as i'm going to get raped for the nxt five years too!
if someone has something that can be done to get the money back, i'm sure me and the op would be gratefull
Mod note: please don't bypass the swear filter it is there for a reason
noted
i've never costed my insuance companies a penny in my 7 years of driving. but this year i had someone hit my golf in january when it was icy, went through the same as you. his insurance paid for the repairs and i'm happy
then when i take the insuance out for the ro in april i get asked the same question as you "have you had any claims in the last five years, regardless of fault" so i say yes and it takes my prenium from £1758 to £2177.
ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing ing bastards !!!!! i know i'm not giving you any advise on how to get your money back, as i'm going to get raped for the nxt five years too!
if someone has something that can be done to get the money back, i'm sure me and the op would be gratefull
Mod note: please don't bypass the swear filter it is there for a reason
noted
Edited by Matt172 on Monday 1st November 21:34
Edited by liam1986 on Monday 1st November 21:36
The Financial Services Industry has a lot to answer for in this country.
Starting with the bankers, IMHO they are a bunch of crooks and charlatans. They are apparently just the right side of the law. Take your pick as to which ones the insurance lot are, but just because they get raped and pillaged by cheats and crooks who make fraudulent claims, it appears they tar honest people with the same brush, and treat them accordingly.
Something needs to be done about this no fault situation, anyone know an honest MP?
ETA, don't suppose PH are interested in campaigning for us???
Starting with the bankers, IMHO they are a bunch of crooks and charlatans. They are apparently just the right side of the law. Take your pick as to which ones the insurance lot are, but just because they get raped and pillaged by cheats and crooks who make fraudulent claims, it appears they tar honest people with the same brush, and treat them accordingly.
Something needs to be done about this no fault situation, anyone know an honest MP?
ETA, don't suppose PH are interested in campaigning for us???
Edited by MyM8V8 on Tuesday 2nd November 11:37
ARAF said:
liam1986 said:
if someone has something that can be done to get the money back, i'm sure me and the op would be grateful
If you have legal cover, ask them to persue the other party for the additional premium.
just looked, i have £100k legal cover. so i'm on hold ready for a heated discussion!
My policy [excuse the pun] is to never involve my insurance company in a third part claim. A few years back someone drove into the side of me on a roundabout and earlier this year someone reversed into my wife's car in a car park. On both occasions I did not involve my insurance company but went straight to the other persons company. As it seems here involving your own insurance company [sadly] just seems provide the potential for problems.
A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
Sloooooow said:
My policy [excuse the pun] is to never involve my insurance company in a third part claim. A few years back someone drove into the side of me on a roundabout and earlier this year someone reversed into my wife's car in a car park. On both occasions I did not involve my insurance company but went straight to the other persons company. As it seems here involving your own insurance company [sadly] just seems provide the potential for problems.
A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
that still counts as a non fault claim, and as an insurance company paid out it will be on record. you'll probably get away with it until/if you have a accident which is your fault, then they will loook into any possable way they can get out of paying. so technically your insuance isn't vaild.
I've just spoken to the company that provide the legal assistance asking if they will pursue the 3rd party who ran into my R8 for the increased premiums I will have to pay for the next 3 years as an out of pocket expense. They said it is not classed as an insurable loss! So what the hell do I pay for in requesting a) legal assistance and b) protected NCD??
The arguemt of the insurance companies (supposedly based on research) is that because I have now had a claim my risk rating has worsened and that I am statistically more likely to have another claim!! On the basis that statistically you are likely at some time to have some sort of accident then surely if I have had one (albiet not my fault) the odds of me having another are REDUCED, not increased, and it is somebody elses turn, given that accidents largely happen on a random basis from a time and geographical basis!
This seems so unfair when I consider the amount of money I have paid over the years, without a claim.
Which ever way you turn they've got an answer - usually in their favour!
By the way VXR8 bumper price: £2,500!!
The arguemt of the insurance companies (supposedly based on research) is that because I have now had a claim my risk rating has worsened and that I am statistically more likely to have another claim!! On the basis that statistically you are likely at some time to have some sort of accident then surely if I have had one (albiet not my fault) the odds of me having another are REDUCED, not increased, and it is somebody elses turn, given that accidents largely happen on a random basis from a time and geographical basis!
This seems so unfair when I consider the amount of money I have paid over the years, without a claim.
Which ever way you turn they've got an answer - usually in their favour!
By the way VXR8 bumper price: £2,500!!
Edited by nicaf on Tuesday 2nd November 13:11
I’m not so sure these insurance companies check the information as diligently as we assume.
I know a person who told his insurance company that he had a clean licence when he actually had 3 pts from an offence more than 3 years old. Although the points were spent they still appeared on his licence (under the 4 year rule) and certainly applied under the insurance company’s 5 year rule.
He ended up writing of his car (his fault and nobody else involved) and was obliged to participate in a 3 way call with his insurance company and DVLA. The insurance company asked DVLA if he had any points on his licence and they said ‘no’ presumably because the points were technically spent!
Needless to say he breathed a sigh of relief and his insurers paid out – no issues.
I know a person who told his insurance company that he had a clean licence when he actually had 3 pts from an offence more than 3 years old. Although the points were spent they still appeared on his licence (under the 4 year rule) and certainly applied under the insurance company’s 5 year rule.
He ended up writing of his car (his fault and nobody else involved) and was obliged to participate in a 3 way call with his insurance company and DVLA. The insurance company asked DVLA if he had any points on his licence and they said ‘no’ presumably because the points were technically spent!
Needless to say he breathed a sigh of relief and his insurers paid out – no issues.
vxr8mate said:
I’m not so sure these insurance companies check the information as diligently as we assume.
I know a person who told his insurance company that he had a clean licence when he actually had 3 pts from an offence more than 3 years old. Although the points were spent they still appeared on his licence (under the 4 year rule) and certainly applied under the insurance company’s 5 year rule.
He ended up writing of his car (his fault and nobody else involved) and was obliged to participate in a 3 way call with his insurance company and DVLA. The insurance company asked DVLA if he had any points on his licence and they said ‘no’ presumably because the points were technically spent!
Needless to say he breathed a sigh of relief and his insurers paid out – no issues.
The points are not 'spent' until 5 years from the date of conviction. It's a legal term. See the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974. I guess he was lucky.I know a person who told his insurance company that he had a clean licence when he actually had 3 pts from an offence more than 3 years old. Although the points were spent they still appeared on his licence (under the 4 year rule) and certainly applied under the insurance company’s 5 year rule.
He ended up writing of his car (his fault and nobody else involved) and was obliged to participate in a 3 way call with his insurance company and DVLA. The insurance company asked DVLA if he had any points on his licence and they said ‘no’ presumably because the points were technically spent!
Needless to say he breathed a sigh of relief and his insurers paid out – no issues.
nicaf said:
I've just spoken to the company that provide the legal assistance asking if they will pursue the 3rd party who ran into my R8 for the increased premiums I will have to pay for the next 3 years as an out of pocket expense. They said it is not classed as an insurable loss!
You are not trying to better yourself, just to put yourself back in the same position as before the accident. It is no different from having medical expenses paid for the next three years if injury was sustained in the accident. I'd ask for it in writing - pointing out that as it's a financial penalty resulting from the accident, then it is a no-fault loss. Then see what a no-win no-fee lawyer would have to say about it. nicaf said:
I have never claimed in my life, I have a clean driving licence and just because some plonker can't drive I am the one who is penalised. What is going on? How can this be right?
I agree that it's not 'right', but dont forget that it is a 'no CLAIMS bonus'. It is NOT a 'no BLAME bonus'.
nicaf said:
On the basis that statistically you are likely at some time to have some sort of accident then surely if I have had one (albiet not my fault) the odds of me having another are REDUCED, not increased, and it is somebody elses turn, given that accidents largely happen on a random basis from a time and geographical basis!
Edited by nicaf on Tuesday 2nd November 13:11
Ah, yes, but the randomness of accident occurrence is exactly why you are just as likely to have another accident - it is not necessairly someone else's turn- and unfortunately, in pure statistical terms you are actually slightly more likely to have another prang, hence the insurers stance on this matter.
However, I know exactly how outraged you feel, as I had a similar non fault bike accident 4 years ago and the bloody thing is still haunting my insurance premiums.
Edited by nicaf on Tuesday 2nd November 13:11
[/quote]
Ah, yes, but the randomness of accident occurrence is exactly why you are just as likely to have another accident - it is not necessairly someone else's turn- and unfortunately, in pure statistical terms you are actually slightly more likely to have another prang, hence the insurers stance on this matter.
However, I know exactly how outraged you feel, as I had a similar non fault bike accident 4 years ago and the bloody thing is still haunting my insurance premiums.
[/quote]
But this is what i dont understand. WHY am I more likley to have another prang? Is it because I am in a big shiny red VXR8 whose back end mesmerises everybody so much they have to get a closer look!!
liam1986 said:
Sloooooow]My policy [excuse the pun] is to never involve my insurance company in a third part claim. A few years back someone drove into the side of me on a roundabout and earlier this year someone reversed into my wife's car in a car park. On both occasions I did not involve my insurance company but went straight to the other persons company. As it seems here involving your own insurance company [sadly said:
just seems provide the potential for problems.
A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
that still counts as a non fault claim, and as an insurance company paid out it will be on record. you'll probably get away with it until/if you have a accident which is your fault, then they will loook into any possable way they can get out of paying. so technically your insuance isn't vaild. A just as a note, on neither occasion did this cause me any hassle at all.
Even if I had called them first, is it not THEIR insured party that is making the claim on THEIR OWN insurance?? Who is actually 'making the claim' on a single insurance policy?
Someone hit my parked car in the snow last winter and left their details. I did not involve my insurance company and did all the chasing up myself. She did not want to pay out cash so I went through her insurance company.
Took a couple of months but in the end my car was fixed to the tune of around £600 and 3 days car hire.
Come renewal my policy had gone up 50% like everyone else due to the bad winter of crashes so I tried MeerCat and Admiral quoted me £70 less but then the lady said "hang on!" and she had the details of my claim and said that there would be a £75 loading.
See they know.
I went back to my original company who said that they did know about my non-fault claim as well but had not loaded me for it and in the end knocked £25 off to keep my business.
So it seems that the cheap end of the market will load you for anything yet the expensive end might not.
It's still a feker tho!
Oh yes! how come any claims on my car affect my bike insurance but the bike insurers have ignored my previous 20 years of car driving with no accidents, claims or convictions.
Took a couple of months but in the end my car was fixed to the tune of around £600 and 3 days car hire.
Come renewal my policy had gone up 50% like everyone else due to the bad winter of crashes so I tried MeerCat and Admiral quoted me £70 less but then the lady said "hang on!" and she had the details of my claim and said that there would be a £75 loading.
See they know.
I went back to my original company who said that they did know about my non-fault claim as well but had not loaded me for it and in the end knocked £25 off to keep my business.
So it seems that the cheap end of the market will load you for anything yet the expensive end might not.
It's still a feker tho!
Oh yes! how come any claims on my car affect my bike insurance but the bike insurers have ignored my previous 20 years of car driving with no accidents, claims or convictions.
croyde said:
Oh yes! how come any claims on my car affect my bike insurance but the bike insurers have ignored my previous 20 years of car driving with no accidents, claims or convictions.
Because if you brake and lock the front in a car, you skid. Do it on a bike, and you'll often come off.How are you doing Croyde? Still got the train set?
Edited by ARAF on Tuesday 2nd November 15:11
Right, i've been on the phone to Bell(the at-fault insurance company from my non-fault claim) and at first they seemed to say " off, were not going to pay you for increased premiums". So i doing it the old fashoned way and am writing a letter claiming the increased premiums.
Draft Below:
Dear Sirs,
January this year a driver insured with Bell hit my car (VN07 MLV). Your driver was at-fault and Bell paid for the repairs to my car, at this point the damage to my car was the only loss I incurred.
Subsequently I have now incurred financial losses due to the accident in the form of increased insurance premiums. I am now insured with Admiral (current registration number: V800 DRB), this year alone the financial loss due to the claim is £419. This amount has been put on my premium due to the accident which I was a victim of. (As I now have to tick the box saying I have made a claim in the last 5 years, regardless of fault)
As the increase in premiums is going to take place for the next 5 years, I am not prepared to accept this loss and am making a claim against Bell Insurance, to recover my financial losses due to the accident.
As a best case scenario if the increase is kept the same for the next 5 years my total loss will be £2095.
Any thing else i should add?
(the final copy will be set out propally, with the claim ref, address etc on it)
off, were not going to pay you for increased premiums". So i doing it the old fashoned way and am writing a letter claiming the increased premiums. Draft Below:
Dear Sirs,
January this year a driver insured with Bell hit my car (VN07 MLV). Your driver was at-fault and Bell paid for the repairs to my car, at this point the damage to my car was the only loss I incurred.
Subsequently I have now incurred financial losses due to the accident in the form of increased insurance premiums. I am now insured with Admiral (current registration number: V800 DRB), this year alone the financial loss due to the claim is £419. This amount has been put on my premium due to the accident which I was a victim of. (As I now have to tick the box saying I have made a claim in the last 5 years, regardless of fault)
As the increase in premiums is going to take place for the next 5 years, I am not prepared to accept this loss and am making a claim against Bell Insurance, to recover my financial losses due to the accident.
As a best case scenario if the increase is kept the same for the next 5 years my total loss will be £2095.
Any thing else i should add?
(the final copy will be set out propally, with the claim ref, address etc on it)
Edited by liam1986 on Tuesday 2nd November 15:27
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