Sagaris type car

Author
Discussion

LMRACER

Original Poster:

36 posts

163 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Guys..
please dont shoot me ....I know this car would not be a TVR and thats half of the point ...to dodge a certain trademark bullet...but keep the flavour and the shape alive.

What would your response be to a company with a good reputation for high quality chassis,suspension and body development being able to offer a "kit" with a slightly modified Sagaris body on a new chassis(that will not rust btw)
Utilising only an LS engine package... LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 AND LS7,
The "kit" would be chassis, body and glass, with door hinges , rad. pedals etc all included...you would then have to provide a specific donor..(this could be provided at extra cost too if need be)

I know there is the IVA/Q plate hurdle but lets set that aside for now as I know there are other Countries where this is not a problem and they are not able to import a TVR for love nor money, but they could import a "kit" allowing them to live the dream.

The price for this would be in the 15-17,000 quid range.....

I am asking to see what response the purist TVR guys would have to it but ...its already underway from what I have been told...




Edited by LMRACER on Tuesday 1st January 21:59

Don1

15,936 posts

207 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
But we are keeping the marque alive?

That kind of money for an unfinished kit that you may not be able to use on the road? All the nutters are out today.

LMRACER

Original Poster:

36 posts

163 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
It is being done as an IVA compliant car....so it will certainly be road legal...
It will also mean that Sagaris panels would be attainable as the moulds were taken from a Sag. ...is that a bad thing?

Don1

15,936 posts

207 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Depends - most owners aren't going to be chucking them off the road - there are only two or three that have been scrapped.
I think it boils down to the murky world of kit cars and replicas - will they impact the residuals of the originals, will they continue to give TVR a bad name or will they actually keep the marque alive?

Right now in the economy, I can't see it working. That kind of disposable income isn't just kicking around for people to punt on what is essentially a fake.

LMRACER

Original Poster:

36 posts

163 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Personally I would only see it being considered a fake if its marketed as a TVR continuation or something equally tenuous....and tiresome actually
If its sold as what it is a V8 powered front engined muscle car...such as a Corvette or a Viper is in the USA, but one that can be built with quality and available parts it may stand a chance...IMHO.

clive f

7,250 posts

232 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Don1 said:
Right now in the economy, I can't see it working. That kind of disposable income isn't just kicking around for people to punt on what is essentially a fake.
this, a bit like an mr2 based ferrari replica.
I can understand the attraction as the sagaris is a fantastic car, maybe it good be a good thing, if there is a market abroad for it? possibly push the value of an origrinal sagaris even higher as well, who knows.


somehow it seems like the 1st April today

LMRACER

Original Poster:

36 posts

163 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
If its got the same engine as being used in "uprated" TVR's , and its body is taken from Sag. moulds then why would it be similar to an MR2 Ferrari rep.?

Not looking to start a fight ,just asking ...as I am personally very interested in owning one for the reasons I mentioned...currently available(new) parts and a chassis that will not rust..along with it already having the otherwise expensive LS engine installation..



Edited by LMRACER on Tuesday 1st January 22:24

Colin L

1,242 posts

266 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Let see photos
Knowing the kit car industry over the years Cobra & GT40 stuff are very good cars,but cost a lot more than 17K

So anyone doing this needs to be high end standard not cheap entry level.
But to have the real thing than cheap looker is the only way.

Again photos & more info would help a post like this

But it all does seem like todays posts look like 2013 is the year of April Fool Posters

Colin L

LMRACER

Original Poster:

36 posts

163 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Colin ,
I agree, if it was entry level stuff I would not be interested...

I am expecting more info within a month and will be heading off to view with my own eyes...Pictures will certainly follow

I currently have an SRT Viper and a 993 as my toy cars but love the look of the Sag. but I am just not into the TVR parts and rust issues too much.

RedSpike66

2,336 posts

211 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
Not aware of any rusty Sags so far.... 7 years old now... my BM rusts tho !

Colin L

1,242 posts

266 months

Tuesday 1st January 2013
quotequote all
LMRacer
I love the Sagaris the drive the looks & sound
I have been in TVR for 20 years now, all cars rust but my experience TVRs rust less than all other makes, if maintained correctly
Let see pictures and more info but a duck is never a swan

Colin L

clive f

7,250 posts

232 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
LMRACER said:
Guys..
to offer a "kit" with a slightly modified Sagaris body on a new chassis(that will not rust btw)
Utilising only an LS engine package... LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 AND LS7,
The "kit" would be chassis, body and glass, with door hinges , rad. pedals etc all included...you would then have to provide a specific donor..(this could be provided at extra cost too if need be)


The price for this would be in the 15-17,000 quid range.....

I am asking to see what response the purist TVR guys would have to it but ...its already underway from what I have been told...


Edited by LMRACER on Tuesday 1st January 21:59
so these people are to supply a kit, with a chassis that aparently will have no rust problems, so either its the same chassis that has been refurbed or a new chassis made from stainless steel of aluminium? so the chassis would then be different to the origninal. plus a specific donor car would be required, assume this would be an early Tuscan, or other t car?

the ls powered cars are built based on Blackpool tvrs, the scenario here seems to be lets build a car that looks like a Sagaris but isn`t a real one, and it would`nt even have a tvr badge on it.
thats not a problem for me, if someone wants to build a car that looks like a sagaris fine, I can understand the desire for one as they are great looking cars, if they were ugly then this topic wouldn`t have appeared.

the same applies to those who love ferrari, can`t afford one, but go and buy a cheap replica, fair enough, but I cant see this one being cheap, but interested to see how it pans out.
a car built in Blackpool will always be worth more as an original IMHO.

there are bound to be situations likle this arising since the demise of tvr, and I`m sure there will be many more in the future.

spitfire4v8

3,990 posts

180 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
There's a company already doing this called GTF who will give you a sagaris styled car with a yank V8 in it for racing (at a price). They were rumoured to be doing a road version at some point too. If you want to do this idea I think you need to do it now before someone else does. First to market usually wins.

Don1

15,936 posts

207 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
..... and the 'rust' thing. I don't know of a Sag yet that has needed rust repairs... There's a T350 about to pass 200k miles that hasn't had rust repairs (we believe).

That as a selling point will be laughed at by those in the know...

gacksen

680 posts

142 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
would see a bigger market in reasonable priced LS conversions....

ChrisPap

395 posts

153 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
I, like many people will be interested to see how this goes. If it can be done for an all up price of £30k then there may be a small market in the UK, otherwise it'll be overseas only. There is already the option mind, to buy a tuscan or T-car and have that rebodied as a sagaris, at least then it's a blackpool TVR, even though the purists will ask 'but what's on the V5' as if that piece of paper is what makes a car.

Sagaris' are special because of how they look, ie, insane. A very similar chsassis, engine, gearbox, interior etc in a Tamora or t-350 isn't worth half as much. That demand coupled with short supply has driven the price so high. There are enough threads on sagaris values already, but the fact remains that there is now a huge amount of room below the sagaris price for a copy to emerge. The deciding factor is going to be, is it a crappy kit car that can't hold a candle to the original like a MR2 Ferrari, or is it going to be a true performance replica like a GT40 or Hawk Stratos. It sounds like the latter, but some people will chose not to recognise the difference.

Edited by ChrisPap on Wednesday 2nd January 10:09

my250gt

626 posts

218 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
For what its worth, IMHO, cars in kit form have moved on somewhat from cheap kit cars and dont have to be considered as dressed up donors, but instead considered as an interesting alternative to a eurobox saloon. Take a look at this for example:-

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/what...

This should perhaps be a benchmark for any company offering a component car these days, offering the enthusiast the opportunity to build themselves a new car, in the style they want, with new parts.


Graham

16,368 posts

283 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
spitfire4v8 said:
There's a company already doing this called GTF who will give you a sagaris styled car with a yank V8 in it for racing (at a price). They were rumoured to be doing a road version at some point too. If you want to do this idea I think you need to do it now before someone else does. First to market usually wins.
Indeed I've got one in build for racing, using a Tuscan Challenge car chassis and running gear. I think 17k is a long way wide of the mark... I've spent at least that to get to rolling chassis with a body sat on it stage!

You can buy that if you like !!!

jrb43

793 posts

254 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
17K was muted as the starting point and may well be the cost of chassis and body. Indeed from bored moments looking at GT40 replicas or Ultimas; that probably is right. However, whatever you do from that point, I never got an end figure on the envelope that was less than 65k - and that was 10k for a crate LS motor probably mated to hydrogas suspension rolleyes and the brakes off a disability scooter tongue out. Car components are expensive, end of, particularly if you aren't ordering a million units at the time.

I'm sure that building kit cars is enjoyable but is never financially profitable - simply through economies of scale.

On a different note, you would also need to consider Nick's opinion on this. I know that when Dom was looking into building new cars, despite selling "rights", he made it financially "challenging". While Ferrari probably aren't too bothered about MR2s with bad body kits running around and Ford aren't going to challenge over a car they made in the 1960s, I think if the Russian one could smell any sort of money to be made from your venture, he'd suddenly be VERY interested.




V8 GRF

7,294 posts

209 months

Wednesday 2nd January 2013
quotequote all
my250gt said:
For what its worth, IMHO, cars in kit form have moved on somewhat from cheap kit cars and dont have to be considered as dressed up donors, but instead considered as an interesting alternative to a eurobox saloon. Take a look at this for example:-

https://www.factoryfive.com/kits/gtm-supercar/what...

This should perhaps be a benchmark for any company offering a component car these days, offering the enthusiast the opportunity to build themselves a new car, in the style they want, with new parts.
I was going to post a link to Factory Five. At least with that car you're getting something that's not a rip-off of something else, looks pretty and if the Daytona Coupe I saw of theirs is anything to go by a superbly well thought out and detailed vehicle.