Tam very 'crashy' after Nitrons fitted!
Discussion
I think I should also reiterate that, like SergSC, I am not averse to a harsh set up. Our MGF Trophy 160 is roughly the same size and weight as the Tamora (albeit with a 180bhp deficit..some may mock, but it is a great little car and nothing like the standard cars) - when it went through its complete mechanical (and handling) restoration a couple of years ago, racing spec Bilsteins were added, along with every single bush changed to polys. It has the same set up as the trophy Cup cars, and set up by the guys that race them. For most, in standard form, the ride was too 'jarring', and I made it even harder - but it's still great fun and very compliant, I love it.
Yet the Tamora, as it is right now, is almost uncomfortably 'jarring' on all but the smoothest of surfaces - and I am used to stiff suspension!
Yet the Tamora, as it is right now, is almost uncomfortably 'jarring' on all but the smoothest of surfaces - and I am used to stiff suspension!
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th June 10:46
SergSC said:
hehe, intuition tells me the wishbone bushes and engine mounts don't appreciate the extra shock. Didn't your horn just fall off as well?! probably a coincidence 
I was told they would get softer because of "stiction" when new... it didn't by any teeth clatter rate measure
get the vreds, it will get you by.
My engine mount is just starting to go again (undertray rattle has just slightly started) after only 6k.
See when you go over those inch deep recessed trenches with sharp edges, about a foot wide, put in by utility companies, who then neglect filling them back up level with the road... these inverted speed bumps are now everywhere where I live... the whole front of the car seems to drop into them at the same time as wheels, its as if the springs are not allowed to spring open from compression and catch you when you hit the bottom, then it crashes into the wall on the other side... the double hit is harsher than a speed bump.
The whole process is violent... I may be misinterpreting but its as if the damper prevents the spring from any kind of fast/sharp movement, as opposed to the spring not wanting to compress/decompress. I would have thought/guessing that a stiff spring would be extra keen to drop the wheel into the above hole, then catch the weight of the car which shouldn't have dropped in as far in the time it takes to cross the gap, and a so a less harsh climb/compression up over the other side... it doesnt seem to do this in practice, which makes me think the spring is over damped... Pardon my ignorance! just trying to understand
If I can sort of quantify what the Vreds did to this situation vs proxes was to turn those 90 degree walls into 45 degree slopes.
Makes perfect sense to me, your words are how the car (and my back) felt when driving last Sunday! The relentless bangs and crashes cannot be good for the overall health of the car (and my back)!I was told they would get softer because of "stiction" when new... it didn't by any teeth clatter rate measure
get the vreds, it will get you by.
My engine mount is just starting to go again (undertray rattle has just slightly started) after only 6k.
See when you go over those inch deep recessed trenches with sharp edges, about a foot wide, put in by utility companies, who then neglect filling them back up level with the road... these inverted speed bumps are now everywhere where I live... the whole front of the car seems to drop into them at the same time as wheels, its as if the springs are not allowed to spring open from compression and catch you when you hit the bottom, then it crashes into the wall on the other side... the double hit is harsher than a speed bump.
The whole process is violent... I may be misinterpreting but its as if the damper prevents the spring from any kind of fast/sharp movement, as opposed to the spring not wanting to compress/decompress. I would have thought/guessing that a stiff spring would be extra keen to drop the wheel into the above hole, then catch the weight of the car which shouldn't have dropped in as far in the time it takes to cross the gap, and a so a less harsh climb/compression up over the other side... it doesnt seem to do this in practice, which makes me think the spring is over damped... Pardon my ignorance! just trying to understand
If I can sort of quantify what the Vreds did to this situation vs proxes was to turn those 90 degree walls into 45 degree slopes.
Laser Sag said:
can't help on the shocks side of things but can recommend the Vredesrein Ultrac Sessantas.
Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
That's good to know, cheers! can't believe they're so much cheaper than the Toyos! And if they're good enough for the mighty top of the range Sag....Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
TitusA said:
I enjoy driving the Tam more than any car I have ever owned all standard RR spec. I am somewhat confused by the damper/spring threads - mostly all of them
Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up disappointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
If my experience is anything to go by (I have had two Tamoras), and knowing what I do now, I would have spent that Nitron money on CR gears for my standard box and bought standard suspension as and when it was needed. As I do have them now, however, I shall have to go through a few stages to try and limit the bone jarring experience...Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up disappointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th June 14:21
nrick said:
Chris I am also in CInderford (well Littledean) with a Tuscan if you need anything. Haven't seen you around?
Hi Neill!I haven't seen (or heard) you, too!
We almost bought a house in Littledean (Dean Crescent), but decided against it due to the steep incline of the drive to the garage (was thinking ahead for when I buy another Tam..)
The house we bought is still in a dilapidated state due to spending everything on the car - need to correct that the second half of this year, the Tam will have to wait 'till next year for more upgrades..
Cheers
Edited by chris watton on Thursday 19th June 22:12
Ab Shocks said:
I don't subscribe to the spherical bearings theory because all the suspension companies have been using them for ages and anyway the rest of the wishbone bushes are metalastic.
I just think the output of the 46mm shocks has been increased and that's the problem, getum revalved is the answer.
What does 're-valving' entail - does it mean they have to be removed again to do this?I just think the output of the 46mm shocks has been increased and that's the problem, getum revalved is the answer.
For the price of a Centre Gravity geo, I could buy these and have change to spare!
http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/tvr-car-part-rd10b...
In fact, this may be what I end up doing, and perhaps should have bought the Protech's in the first instance.
Anyway, before all that, as I said, I shall take the Tam to Neil Garner, and see if there's anything they can do.
http://www.racetechdirect.co.uk/tvr-car-part-rd10b...
In fact, this may be what I end up doing, and perhaps should have bought the Protech's in the first instance.
Anyway, before all that, as I said, I shall take the Tam to Neil Garner, and see if there's anything they can do.
twinreal said:
I'm surprised to read so many negative posts here. Very pleased with my nitrons/eibach. They are everything but harsh, not even stiff. I had to adjust the rear ride height high enough to let the wheels always run free in every driving conditions. So they are very soft. Unfortunately don't know the exactly spring rate.
As others said, the right setup will make the difference. AND the right tire pressure ! If you put in 0,3 bar too much, you can transform the car into undriveable.
When I posted a topic on Nitrons, and are they really worth double of other makes, the overwhelming verdict was that, yes, they are worth it - most seemed pleased with their set up. this is what convinced me to for Nitrons.As others said, the right setup will make the difference. AND the right tire pressure ! If you put in 0,3 bar too much, you can transform the car into undriveable.
Little did I know that I'd be spending £1200+£200 fitting on what seems like driving a car with no suspension at all!
Desiato said:
Just out of curiosity Chris, have you spoken to Nitron about your issues and have they got any suggestions to rectify and improve the ride?
I haven't yet, no. I do know that whatever I decide to do, it will cost more money, and I refuse to spend any more for a least a few months. I spent over £1400 on the Nitrons and fitting (on top of a £6k re-trim, service and MOT) - I simply cannot spend any more right now.It will get sorted, but not yet, and anyway, I won't be 100% happy until I have had the 4.3 and gearbox/diff mods, so am in no rush. Just annoyed that one of the mods/improvements I wanted to tick off as done is far from it!
QBee said:
I almost never use the handbrake. Because of all the disk warping dire warnings on track days, I now automatically stick the car in gear rather then use the handbrake. OK, doesn't work for hill starts........
I know, I hardly ever use it too, even in the garage, the wheels are chocked and handbrake off - but it will be Sods law that I'll need that handbrake at some critical point! Although if my wife's in the car, it wouldn't be so bad...spitfire4v8 said:
Sometimes the guy who's really good at servicing your car isn't the best guy to sort your suspension woes..
I know - but silly me, I thought they'd be great straight out of the box!I must make it clear, I am in no way bad-mouthing Nitron - I am sure the shocks are fantastic on a track (and are fine on smooth roads), it's just that they are a hell of a lot stiffer than I could have imagined - I chose 'the most popular Nitron choice for TVR owners' after all
Booking the car in with Nitron may not be a bad idea - before we take our trip to Italy, for sure..
K4TRV said:
I see you are having fun electrically.
With all this conjecture on the Nitrons, have you actually looked and checked how many clicks you have on each corner yet?
Some way back in this thread you said they (Central TVR) "adjusted" them - to what??
It may help to know before you need to contact Nitron, or Neil Garner or CG?
T
Yes, my dash area look eviscerated at the moment. Once this is all back together, I shall take the wheels off and have a look. I was told however, that they were set up as not too harsh/not too soft....With all this conjecture on the Nitrons, have you actually looked and checked how many clicks you have on each corner yet?
Some way back in this thread you said they (Central TVR) "adjusted" them - to what??
It may help to know before you need to contact Nitron, or Neil Garner or CG?
T
QBee said:
First job, take the car for a drive and see what it feels like,
You should be able to find the damper control knobs without taking the wheels off.
Next, at each damper in turn, turn the adjuster anti-clockwise until it stops, counting the clicks as you go. Write down the results.
They are now as soft as possible. That is as soft as they will go.
Then turn them clockwise, and bearing in mind whether you found them too harsh or too soft before, adjust them up to settings you think might be correct. test drive and adjust until you are happy.
Thanks for that, that's what I'll do! You should be able to find the damper control knobs without taking the wheels off.
Next, at each damper in turn, turn the adjuster anti-clockwise until it stops, counting the clicks as you go. Write down the results.
They are now as soft as possible. That is as soft as they will go.
Then turn them clockwise, and bearing in mind whether you found them too harsh or too soft before, adjust them up to settings you think might be correct. test drive and adjust until you are happy.
twinreal said:
Originally for the NTR's for lotus, but should help anyway: http://www.sector111.com/images/products/performan...
Thank you - have saved that for future reference.
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