Tam very 'crashy' after Nitrons fitted!
Discussion
Steve, car set up is a very personal thing, CofG work for you, it does not make them a best fit for all set up options.
Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 17th June 22:10
TVRMs said:
Steve, car set up is a very personal thing, CofG work for you, it does not make them a best fit for all set up options.
Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Hi, I agree on your comments regarding the setup, it is indeed personal and some may find CG as overkill. The circumstances dictated they were worth exploring, given new shocks and close friends recommendations (Noble Track Owners and TVR Road Owners). In terms of pressures, I can only go by what i've been told. TrackVRoad were the ones who mentioned the advisory (as they did about dealers lowering ride heights to make the cars look better), when I visited them after being advised by CG that a higher pressure was needed than 24. This was based on checking my tyre temps, which were not consistent across the tyre and the nature of the wear. It may have been many chose to ignore the information as there didn't seem to be any issues, or it could be another one of those, hard to qualify TVR rumours :P Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Edited by TVRMs on Tuesday 17th June 22:10
One thing I did struggle with was spring rates and knowing what to go for on my Protechs. I went with 400 and 350, which works well for my car, for fast road. I would be interested to hear what different spring rates people have. Thanks for your comments, it's good to get a different perspective.
ShiDevil said:
Hi, I agree on your comments regarding the setup, it is indeed personal and some may find CG as overkill. The circumstances dictated they were worth exploring, given new shocks and close friends recommendations (Noble Track Owners and TVR Road Owners). In terms of pressures, I can only go by what i've been told. TrackVRoad were the ones who mentioned the advisory (as they did about dealers lowering ride heights to make the cars look better), when I visited them after being advised by CG that a higher pressure was needed than 24. This was based on checking my tyre temps, which were not consistent across the tyre and the nature of the wear. It may have been many chose to ignore the information as there didn't seem to be any issues, or it could be another one of those, hard to qualify TVR rumours :P
One thing I did struggle with was spring rates and knowing what to go for on my Protechs. I went with 400 and 350, which works well for my car, for fast road. I would be interested to hear what different spring rates people have. Thanks for your comments, it's good to get a different perspective.
A tamora with 500 F & 450 R on Nitrons - used in TVR Speed Champs for Sprints & Speed Hillclimbs. Tyre pressures 22 F 23 R R1Rs (235/40 x 18 F & 255/35 x 18R) & Kumho V70 225/40x18 F & 245/35 x 18 R (soft front & Medium rears) using 20/21 F & 22/23 R psi. Front roll bar with rose-joints, rear roll bar disconnected. It all works for me 8-))One thing I did struggle with was spring rates and knowing what to go for on my Protechs. I went with 400 and 350, which works well for my car, for fast road. I would be interested to hear what different spring rates people have. Thanks for your comments, it's good to get a different perspective.
Different perspective again??
T
ShiDevil said:
TVRMs said:
Steve, car set up is a very personal thing, CofG work for you, it does not make them a best fit for all set up options.
Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Hi, I agree on your comments regarding the setup, it is indeed personal and some may find CG as overkill. The circumstances dictated they were worth exploring, given new shocks and close friends recommendations (Noble Track Owners and TVR Road Owners). In terms of pressures, I can only go by what i've been told. TrackVRoad were the ones who mentioned the advisory (as they did about dealers lowering ride heights to make the cars look better), when I visited them after being advised by CG that a higher pressure was needed than 24. This was based on checking my tyre temps, which were not consistent across the tyre and the nature of the wear. It may have been many chose to ignore the information as there didn't seem to be any issues, or it could be another one of those, hard to qualify TVR rumours :P Fact is, man has issues with ride that is too firm, his spring rates have gone up significantly.
£600 later, that will still be the case.
I dispute the tyre pressure thing, but I've probably spent more time quantifying my statement than the specialists you name.
As an aside, I don't recall TVR issuing any notice on pressures and I owned several new T cars from 2003 to 2006 all supplied and serviced by probably the dealer closest to the factory?
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 17th June 22:10
One thing I did struggle with was spring rates and knowing what to go for on my Protechs. I went with 400 and 350, which works well for my car, for fast road. I would be interested to hear what different spring rates people have. Thanks for your comments, it's good to get a different perspective.
K4TRV said:
A tamora with 500 F & 450 R on Nitrons - used in TVR Speed Champs for Sprints & Speed Hillclimbs. Tyre pressures 22 F 23 R R1Rs (235/40 x 18 F & 255/35 x 18R) & Kumho V70 225/40x18 F & 245/35 x 18 R (soft front & Medium rears) using 20/21 F & 22/23 R psi. Front roll bar with rose-joints, rear roll bar disconnected. It all works for me 8-))
Different perspective again??
T
That sounds like it's a playful character Different perspective again??
T
TVRMs said:
Turning adjusters will not change spring rates....
Chrispap already tried that. Didnt work.Tbh I'm not surprised. I have had very stiff springs and damper setup on my s2k, but it was still able to react in time for the bone rattling sharp bumps/holes.. I loved those things, 560lb/in (similar % increase to the tam/nitrons) meisterr zeta r coilovers, very firm, very direct, very stiff tyres, but somehow dealt with the same rough surfaces much better than these nitrons on the tam. They were rubber bushed... and the s2k is also less rattly/nvr which helps the perception.
I mean its not as if you didnt feel the harsh bumps, they were just dispatched without drama/cringing/gf bitting her tongue. Its the difference between thump and clunk.
imo we bought the wrong shocks altogether, great for hillclimbing/track/race, not good for daily road use. Imo they are for occasional road use, to and fro the track/hill.
chris watton said:
When you write 'Vreds', are you referring to these?;
http://www.clickontyres.co.uk/everyday-tyres/produ...
Yeshttp://www.clickontyres.co.uk/everyday-tyres/produ...
SergSC said:
chris watton said:
When you write 'Vreds', are you referring to these?;
http://www.clickontyres.co.uk/everyday-tyres/produ...
Yeshttp://www.clickontyres.co.uk/everyday-tyres/produ...
chris watton said:
Yes, the springs came with the shocks - this was the package:
Hi Chris,
I have been following this thread as our Tamora has Nitrons fitted (look the same as the ones in your pic), but they were fitted when we bough the car.
We have found them to be very good although the rear does have a tendency to ground the rear splitter when pushed hard over undulating roads. Not sure what spring rates we have although I am sure the rear springs are purple in colour. I have thought of fitting stiffer rear springs to reduce the grounding effect but didn't want to make the rear end too stiff as we only use it on the road.
I will confess to having not driven other Tamoras so cannot compare the ride quality.
Mick
chris watton said:
Cripes - they're cheap! A couple of Toyo proxies in my Blackcircles basket are £133 each!
Chris don't be put off by the cheapness of these tyres, they came highly recommended to me as a "mid-range" tyre, although I must admit I did end up with Toyo's at about £30 a tyre extra (fronts are Toyo too so just wanted a match).And I know it's no consolation at the present, but I did the same with my shocks, agonised over Nitrons, in the end put Protechs on for half the price, I fitted them myself, then paid Selby TVR £100 to set up the geo, then subsequently Concept Performance another £50 to adjust the ride height, plus I've played with the settings myself to get it to what I think is good handling car, it'll take a bit of time, but they will get sorted, however £567 is a lot of money, it's actually more than my Protechs cost!
Desiato said:
chris watton said:
Yes, the springs came with the shocks - this was the package:
Hi Chris,I have been following this thread as our Tamora has Nitrons fitted (look the same as the ones in your pic), but they were fitted when we bough the car.
We have found them to be very good although the rear does have a tendency to ground the rear splitter when pushed hard over undulating roads. Not sure what spring rates we have although I am sure the rear springs are purple in colour. I have thought of fitting stiffer rear springs to reduce the grounding effect but didn't want to make the rear end too stiff as we only use it on the road.
I will confess to having not driven other Tamoras so cannot compare the ride quality.
Mick
Is the nose also grounding on speed bumps, ramps to car parks/petrolstation/M&S unless taken very very slow? When I got mine it was way too low and would ground the nose rather than arse when braking hard coming up to an undulation on the road, and the above scenarios.If you dont know the nitrons from new then its might not be comparable anyway, they might be the re-valved for road jobs... or knackered since you are landing the tail... with unloaded boot?
Desiato said:
Hi Chris,
I have been following this thread as our Tamora has Nitrons fitted (look the same as the ones in your pic), but they were fitted when we bough the car.
We have found them to be very good although the rear does have a tendency to ground the rear splitter when pushed hard over undulating roads. Not sure what spring rates we have although I am sure the rear springs are purple in colour. I have thought of fitting stiffer rear springs to reduce the grounding effect but didn't want to make the rear end too stiff as we only use it on the road.
I will confess to having not driven other Tamoras so cannot compare the ride quality.
Mick
Hi Mick I have been following this thread as our Tamora has Nitrons fitted (look the same as the ones in your pic), but they were fitted when we bough the car.
We have found them to be very good although the rear does have a tendency to ground the rear splitter when pushed hard over undulating roads. Not sure what spring rates we have although I am sure the rear springs are purple in colour. I have thought of fitting stiffer rear springs to reduce the grounding effect but didn't want to make the rear end too stiff as we only use it on the road.
I will confess to having not driven other Tamoras so cannot compare the ride quality.
Mick
I have driven two Tams now, both with standard shocks (although my first Tamora's ride height was set up lower than standard, IIRC), but both were a dream to drive on most road surfaces. The Nitrons are a marked difference in ride quality.
Perhaps I shall end up changing the springs to Eicach's - but I feel I shouldn't have to, as these Nitrons were sold on the premise that they're the best compromise for fast road/track, when they are quite evidently very much smooth surface/track biased. Also, what the hell are they doing to the wheels (and the rest of the chassis components) when they crash into every bump in the road!
I shall wait to see if they 'soften', but I am not holding my breath...
Pursyluv said:
Chris don't be put off by the cheapness of these tyres, they came highly recommended to me as a "mid-range" tyre, although I must admit I did end up with Toyo's at about £30 a tyre extra (fronts are Toyo too so just wanted a match).
And I know it's no consolation at the present, but I did the same with my shocks, agonised over Nitrons, in the end put Protechs on for half the price, I fitted them myself, then paid Selby TVR £100 to set up the geo, then subsequently Concept Performance another £50 to adjust the ride height, plus I've played with the settings myself to get it to what I think is good handling car, it'll take a bit of time, but they will get sorted, however £567 is a lot of money, it's actually more than my Protechs cost!
I agree, that is a lot of money (that's a front 322mm brake disk and pad upgrade price, with change - or a full brand new set of Gaz suspension!)And I know it's no consolation at the present, but I did the same with my shocks, agonised over Nitrons, in the end put Protechs on for half the price, I fitted them myself, then paid Selby TVR £100 to set up the geo, then subsequently Concept Performance another £50 to adjust the ride height, plus I've played with the settings myself to get it to what I think is good handling car, it'll take a bit of time, but they will get sorted, however £567 is a lot of money, it's actually more than my Protechs cost!
I am not too mechanically competent, I have to rely on others who know better to sort this stuff out for me (although I am sure I can adjust the suspension without problems)
I shall wait and see if things improve - no choice really and I am out of funds for now..
I think I should also reiterate that, like SergSC, I am not averse to a harsh set up. Our MGF Trophy 160 is roughly the same size and weight as the Tamora (albeit with a 180bhp deficit..some may mock, but it is a great little car and nothing like the standard cars) - when it went through its complete mechanical (and handling) restoration a couple of years ago, racing spec Bilsteins were added, along with every single bush changed to polys. It has the same set up as the trophy Cup cars, and set up by the guys that race them. For most, in standard form, the ride was too 'jarring', and I made it even harder - but it's still great fun and very compliant, I love it.
Yet the Tamora, as it is right now, is almost uncomfortably 'jarring' on all but the smoothest of surfaces - and I am used to stiff suspension!
Yet the Tamora, as it is right now, is almost uncomfortably 'jarring' on all but the smoothest of surfaces - and I am used to stiff suspension!
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th June 10:46
chris watton said:
Also, what the hell are they doing to the wheels (and the rest of the chassis components) when they crash into every bump in the road!
I shall wait to see if they 'soften', but I am not holding my breath...
hehe, intuition tells me the wishbone bushes and engine mounts don't appreciate the extra shock. Didn't your horn just fall off as well?! probably a coincidence I shall wait to see if they 'soften', but I am not holding my breath...
I was told they would get softer because of "stiction" when new... it didn't by any teeth clatter rate measure
get the vreds, it will get you by.
My engine mount is just starting to go again (undertray rattle has just slightly started) after only 6k.
See when you go over those inch deep recessed trenches with sharp edges, about a foot wide, put in by utility companies, who then neglect filling them back up level with the road... these inverted speed bumps are now everywhere where I live... the whole front of the car seems to drop into them at the same time as wheels, its as if the springs are not allowed to spring open from compression and catch you when you hit the bottom, then it crashes into the wall on the other side... the double hit is harsher than a speed bump.
The whole process is violent... I may be misinterpreting but its as if the damper prevents the spring from any kind of fast/sharp movement, as opposed to the spring not wanting to compress/decompress. I would have thought/guessing that a stiff spring would be extra keen to drop the wheel into the above hole, then catch the weight of the car which shouldn't have dropped in as far in the time it takes to cross the gap, and a so a less harsh climb/compression up over the other side... it doesnt seem to do this in practice, which makes me think the spring is over damped... Pardon my ignorance! just trying to understand
If I can sort of quantify what the Vreds did to this situation vs proxes was to turn those 90 degree walls into 45 degree slopes.
I enjoy driving the Tam more than any car I have ever owned all standard RR spec. I am somewhat confused by the damper/spring threads - mostly all of them
Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up dissapointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up dissapointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
can't help on the shocks side of things but can recommend the Vredesrein Ultrac Sessantas.
Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
SergSC said:
hehe, intuition tells me the wishbone bushes and engine mounts don't appreciate the extra shock. Didn't your horn just fall off as well?! probably a coincidence
I was told they would get softer because of "stiction" when new... it didn't by any teeth clatter rate measure
get the vreds, it will get you by.
My engine mount is just starting to go again (undertray rattle has just slightly started) after only 6k.
See when you go over those inch deep recessed trenches with sharp edges, about a foot wide, put in by utility companies, who then neglect filling them back up level with the road... these inverted speed bumps are now everywhere where I live... the whole front of the car seems to drop into them at the same time as wheels, its as if the springs are not allowed to spring open from compression and catch you when you hit the bottom, then it crashes into the wall on the other side... the double hit is harsher than a speed bump.
The whole process is violent... I may be misinterpreting but its as if the damper prevents the spring from any kind of fast/sharp movement, as opposed to the spring not wanting to compress/decompress. I would have thought/guessing that a stiff spring would be extra keen to drop the wheel into the above hole, then catch the weight of the car which shouldn't have dropped in as far in the time it takes to cross the gap, and a so a less harsh climb/compression up over the other side... it doesnt seem to do this in practice, which makes me think the spring is over damped... Pardon my ignorance! just trying to understand
If I can sort of quantify what the Vreds did to this situation vs proxes was to turn those 90 degree walls into 45 degree slopes.
Makes perfect sense to me, your words are how the car (and my back) felt when driving last Sunday! The relentless bangs and crashes cannot be good for the overall health of the car (and my back)!I was told they would get softer because of "stiction" when new... it didn't by any teeth clatter rate measure
get the vreds, it will get you by.
My engine mount is just starting to go again (undertray rattle has just slightly started) after only 6k.
See when you go over those inch deep recessed trenches with sharp edges, about a foot wide, put in by utility companies, who then neglect filling them back up level with the road... these inverted speed bumps are now everywhere where I live... the whole front of the car seems to drop into them at the same time as wheels, its as if the springs are not allowed to spring open from compression and catch you when you hit the bottom, then it crashes into the wall on the other side... the double hit is harsher than a speed bump.
The whole process is violent... I may be misinterpreting but its as if the damper prevents the spring from any kind of fast/sharp movement, as opposed to the spring not wanting to compress/decompress. I would have thought/guessing that a stiff spring would be extra keen to drop the wheel into the above hole, then catch the weight of the car which shouldn't have dropped in as far in the time it takes to cross the gap, and a so a less harsh climb/compression up over the other side... it doesnt seem to do this in practice, which makes me think the spring is over damped... Pardon my ignorance! just trying to understand
If I can sort of quantify what the Vreds did to this situation vs proxes was to turn those 90 degree walls into 45 degree slopes.
Laser Sag said:
can't help on the shocks side of things but can recommend the Vredesrein Ultrac Sessantas.
Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
That's good to know, cheers! can't believe they're so much cheaper than the Toyos! And if they're good enough for the mighty top of the range Sag....Had a set on the Sagaris before it was sold, definitely the equal of the Goodyear Eagle assymetrics they replaces, tread pattern on them looks a bit odd when fitted but they were good in the dry and the wet. Sidewalls felt a bit softer than the Goodyears which helped a bit with ride comfort. Really a very good value for money tyre.
TitusA said:
I enjoy driving the Tam more than any car I have ever owned all standard RR spec. I am somewhat confused by the damper/spring threads - mostly all of them
Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up disappointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
If my experience is anything to go by (I have had two Tamoras), and knowing what I do now, I would have spent that Nitron money on CR gears for my standard box and bought standard suspension as and when it was needed. As I do have them now, however, I shall have to go through a few stages to try and limit the bone jarring experience...Did TVR really get it so wrong that hundreds of owners spend 1000's of pounds to rectify damper/suspension problems that may or may not exist and seemingly end up disappointed with aftermarket parts or spending more time playing with the settings than I find to drive the Tam each year.
Is the lesson from this and other similar threads that for most average drivers whose cars get average road use fitting OEM dampers and springs when needed on a fit and forget basis = less cost and less hassle. Lots of statements - Like 'chalk and cheese' or 'night and day' - but honestly are they really??
Eager to learn and understand
Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 18th June 14:21
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